turdle's mounty moves on

[CDW6212R]

its done! my friend machined the sleeve. i press fit it onto the v6 body. i took the bottom part of the 351 dizzy shaft and grafted it to the top half of the stock CMP shaft by using the collar as the joint with pins through each shaft half. runs true and fits in perfectly!

Very good, well done.

That's a big step, next please double check the fitment to the cam gear. That mesh of the gears needs to be very precise. If it's off too low or high by say 1/8" it likely will eat the gears. You want it to be right, so very slowly and carefully test fit it again and again. I don't know what the ideal depth should be, besides matching an existing example. But do look at that, it's worth the time to feel comfortable and know it's good.

Tons of people have started threads on all of the Mustang sites about their gear wear issues. I think about 2-3 out of ten turn out to be due to the wrong distributor gear. But the others end up being a slight misaligned distributor, the gear being too far up or down on the shaft, aftermarket parts etc.

Again, well done, that was the second hardest part to do.

 

[pufferfish]

actually, aligning the gear isn't hard at all. the gear rides on the landing in the block where the oil pump shaft is. as long as it is allowed to seat, its lined up. when the cam gear turns the CMP/dizzy gear, it naturally forces it down onto that landing...contrary to what others have said on in some of the internet forums i searched when researching this area of the project.

 

[pufferfish]

this was very helpful information...
http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-12390-A.pdf

 

[CDW6212R]

That's good stuff, a find. I think most people don't bother to check it at all, that's the biggest problem. I just wanted to make it clear to everybody that with non bone stock parts, that kind of installation inspection is required. A lot of people will read this thread, and these tips can save others a lot of hassle.

That's part of the "blueprinting" process which is a lost art. Balancing and blueprinting used to be the only real tricks to building an engine. That was before the improved cam technology and heads of today, way before fuel injection too.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Drilling a 50 oz balancer?

Has anyone investigated the possibility of removing weight from a stock Explorer 5.0L 50 oz balancer to make it look like a 28 oz balancer? If it is assumed that half of the external balance is provided by the flexplate and the other half by the harmonic balancer then (50-28)/2= 11 oz-in According to Dorman the diameter of their replacement balancer is 6.3 inches or a radius of about 3 inches. 11 oz-in/3 in = 3.67 oz. If the metal is removed by drilling then the deeper the hole the less the radius so a more realistic number is probably 5 oz. I'm tempted to purchase used 50 oz and 28 oz balancers and take them to a machine shop for evaluation.

Congratulations on the fabrication of a suitable camshaft position sensor for the 351W! Another significant milestone achieved.

 

[pufferfish]

i have talked to an engine builder. they said that they could rebalance my explorer balancer to 28oz. made it sound like it was no big deal to do it.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Good news!

i have talked to an engine builder. they said that they could rebalance my explorer balancer to 28oz. made it sound like it was no big deal to do it.

If that is correct then it's very good news! I was told by Ford Strokers that it was undesirable to balance the crank for a 50 oz balancer because so much metal would have to be removed from the crank. I didn't ask about removing metal from the external balancer.

It would be great not to have to find a 94/95 Cobra pulley.

 

[CDW6212R]

That should be a last resort, good engine builders will not take that much material out of a stock balancer. That's what Jim at Fordstrokers was saying.

Some engine builders will say or do anything, avoid those.

 

[2000StreetRod]

28 oz vs 50 oz balancers

The photo below is of E4TE-A3A which I believe is a 50 oz balancer :

The photo below is of aftermarket equivalent of E8TZ-6316B which I believe is a 28 oz balancer :

A comparison of the two photos indicates a significant amount of metal would have to be removed to make them equivalent. I'm assuming that the stock Explorer 5.0L balancer F67Z6312-AA (aftermarket equivalent shown below) has a counterweight similar to E4TE-A3A.

 

[pufferfish]

when i looked at my balancer, it is clearly an explorer balancer and it definitely shares the same profile as the E4TE-A3A pictured above. so, its got to be a 50oz. but it has 3 holes in it. i am not positive of the size, but from the pics, i would say they are probably .5 dia x .75 deep. the weight removal in such a hole would be .72 oz (says my CAD program). so, roughly 2.16 oz have been removed to achieve a 28oz imbalance. no idea how that math works out, but it must. it didn't rattle that 347 apart in however many years turdle drove the truck.

i wonder if the hole drilling could be a DIY operation? if you took another explorer balancer and drilled the same size and depth holes in the same location as mine, would you get a 28oz balancer repeatably? i wouldn't trust it to a 6500+rpm engine, but staying below 6k might be prefectly acceptable. the stock balancers dont seem to have any factory metal removal to fine tune their imbalances and i know the casting process wouldnt be anywhere near perfect (which is why cranks are always drilled).

 

[pufferfish]

so, i finally got a bit of time this weekend to work on the truck. the engine and trans are in! one problem. since the engine is taller, the heads hit the firewall when i tried to tilt the trans down to install the 4406. i can only get it to trop about 3". i can't get the TC installed. the big issue is the fact that the case sits really close to the gas tank when installed, but the tailshaft protrudes from the trans and the TC input shaft also protrudes. so, i need around 3" clearance and i don't have it. i tried to rotate the TC and fit it in that way, but it won't sit on a jack that way and this thing is way too heavy to heave it up alone. i don't know if 2 people could have done it either. theres just no leverage on your back. i think i am going to have to pull the tank to get it in. thats a can of worms i didn't really want to open.

well, once i figure that out, its time to make some headers and exhaust. i haven't decided yet what to do with the exhaust. i want it to breathe as well as possible, but what is reasonably possible? this engine needs dual 2.5" at a minimum, but dual 3" would be preferred. first thing is to check clearances and find out how in the world quad cats will fit.

 

[CDW6212R]

You will have to pull the gas tank, but it's no big deal if you are prepared for it. Have a decent support to use to hold up the front while you work on the lines, a normal tool box works great. Be very patient with the fuel lines, go very slow with the removal tools, and it should be little trouble. That is the hard part, those lines sometimes are really tough, so be ready for that.

For the exhaust I would suggest doing the cat pipes before headers, so you get used to where the really tight spots are. Only use two front cats, the rears are only for self diagnostic use by the PCM, those are shut off in a tune.

The area along the frame where the left collector goes by is the worst clearance spot. The fuel lines and brake line is there, I would suggest completely moving those, preferably inside the frame. I'm not sure how much trouble that will be, but that's what I intend to do there. Besides those the front pinion and u-joint is the other limiting part. If you can deal with that area well, you should be able to fit a 3" pipe in there, the rest is no problem for that size. I'll tweak that one spot, crush it as needed to get the 3" pipe in there. The collector on the left will have to be at about the stock location, on the right you can move it if you need to.

For mufflers I'd try to find a pair which are thin enough to stack. People have mounted them sideways and at angles, but they usually hang down a little. I found a thin Cherry Bomb muffler that is only 4" thick, together two will be no taller than the space where the stock muffler is.

For headers, find Todd's pictures on the RPS forum and get a good idea of how the primaries can be routed. Regards,

 

[pufferfish]

yeah, it looks like slipping pipes past the frame rail on the right will require an oval shape and the one on the left will just be the thorn in my side. i have seen the pic of tmkoso's and they straight up will not work on a stock engine bay.

will not having the second set of cats make my emissions test fail? this thing MUST pass emissions until it turns 20.

mufflers will prove tricky since i want lots of breathing ability and a quiet exhaust. maybe i will follow turdles lead and go with mufflers in series. i liked how it sounded before pulling the truck apart.

 

[CDW6212R]

How are emissions in MD, do they test only at the tailpipes, or do they also visually confirm the existence of all equipment? Some states will fail you for not having the exact number of cats which were stock, others aren't so stupid and just confirm that there are cats and the sniffer test is passed.

For exhaust, think of a performance vehicle, ignore that these are trucks and ignore what exhaust layout was on them. You want maximum pipe sizing, not small pipes which force the exhaust to go faster(that is restriction). One muffler will not flow as much as two with half as much going through each one. The goal is maximum airflow, past the headers. After headers there is no gain from any restriction, open it up as much as possible. Of course it has to be tuned for it, but that is a given. A stock vehicle with the restrictions these have cannot open it up without tuning for it, and I know members here have done that(bad idea).

The larger the muffler size, the quieter it will be. That basically means longer, as most are similar in cross section sizing. Two in series will be a greater restriction than one, or two in parallel. The only gain of two in series is sound deadening, but that is bad for airflow. Try to find a muffler that you will like the sound of, and make two of them fit. If you get it all done and it's still too loud, you can add another resonator in back, or resonator pipes.

I'm hoping to have room after I'm done, to add resonator pipes. Those are added in the back half, perpendicular and about 2 feet long, closed ends. That often lessens the droning and some loudness. We'll see, it's hard to figure how another pair of pipes could fit back there. Maybe join them just after the mufflers and run those back forward along the mufflers. That's a last resort.

 

[pufferfish]

maryland emissions for OBDII is just plug in (OBDI gets the sniffer on the dyno). what i don't know is what they do with that plug in. do they check for any current codes thrown? or do they check to see that nothing has been bypassed or turned off in the tune? or can they tell that there isn't 4 cats due to readings by the o2 sensors? its all voodoo to me.

 

[CDW6212R]

That sounds good, but you need to find someone who has dealt with the OBDII testing. Find out if the testing will be able to tell that a PCM tune does have the rear cats removed in the tune. I'm thinking that they wouldn't discover that, but you need to know that and not go by what I guess.

Ask James if he has had customers from that area, he would get feedback from them and might know already that you can or can't take out the rear cats. Find out ahead of time and then you shouldn't have any problems, unless your laws change there. Regards,

 

[2000StreetRod]

Clearances?

so, i finally got a bit of time this weekend to work on the truck. the engine and trans are in! one problem. since the engine is taller, the heads hit the firewall when i tried to tilt the trans down to install the 4406. i can only get it to trop about 3". i can't get the TC installed. . . . i think i am going to have to pull the tank to get it in. thats a can of worms i didn't really want to open.

Congratulations on getting the engine with transmission installed!

How much clearance is there between the head and the firewall?

Would there be clearance problems with using the stock Explorer mounts?

Do you have phenolic spacers between the upper and lower intake manifolds?

Will you have enough upper intake to hood clearance?

well, once i figure that out, its time to make some headers and exhaust. i haven't decided yet what to do with the exhaust. i want it to breathe as well as possible, but what is reasonably possible? this engine needs dual 2.5" at a minimum, but dual 3" would be preferred. first thing is to check clearances and find out how in the world quad cats will fit.

I suspect dual 2.5 in. dia. pipes each with a high flow cat and high flow muffler with outputs combining into a single 3.5 or 4 in. dia. tailpipe might be adequate. I'm interested in the Dynomax VT that is available with 2.25, 2.5 and 3.0 in. dia. ports. It should be reasonably quiet at low to mid-range air flow but not very restrictive at high air flow. I agree with Don to avoid the second pair of cats if possible. I don't think there is an O2 sensor after them so they can't influence the PCM. However, they would reduce emissions for a sniffer test.

 

[pufferfish]

How much clearance is there between the head and the firewall?

guessing at about 2" clearance. again, it wasn't enough to get the output of the trans down more than about 3"

Would there be clearance problems with using the stock Explorer mounts?

i am using stock explorer mounts with .25" shims between the block and mounting plate. that was necessary for the pan to clear the steering rack. i don't believe they will cause too much headache in creating the headers.

Do you have phenolic spacers between the upper and lower intake manifolds?

Will you have enough upper intake to hood clearance?

i have decided to use the 4barrel style intake i had on the engine already, so hood clearance wont be an issue. not that i believe there would be any hood clearance problems with any long runner intake. it was really just a cost issue.

I suspect dual 2.5 in. dia. pipes each with a high flow cat and high flow muffler with outputs combining into a single 3.5 or 4 in. dia. tailpipe might be adequate. I'm interested in the Dynomax VT that is available with 2.25, 2.5 and 3.0 in. dia. ports. It should be reasonably quiet at low to mid-range air flow but not very restrictive at high air flow. I agree with Don to avoid the second pair of cats if possible. I don't think there is an O2 sensor after them so they can't influence the PCM. However, they would reduce emissions for a sniffer test.

i am going to go with the biggest pipes possible. going to have to see what that is. gotta check not only around the engine and trans, but the tailpipe too. if i can fit 3" around the engine, but only single 3" out the back, it defeats the purpose. and i was looking at the 50 series flowmaster for mine.

 

[CDW6212R]

Check out the 70 series mufflers too, I think those are a thinner version of the 50's.

 

[pufferfish]

i looked at both. the 70 series is 5x10x22. the 50 series is 5x12x22.25. i don't think either would have an issue fitting mounted vertically side by side. ultimately, it came down to the 70 series being special order on summit.