My new 347

Dono · June 14, 2015

It Runs!!! (sort of)

We finished the motor install.

A thing of beauti. Fired right up. Awesome.

And then....Motor started to get noisy. No oil pressure.
My brand new motorcraft cam syncro shredded its gear.

We used the oil pump primer to check the oil pump, and there is no issue with the pump. I have an email in to Ford Strokers asking what material I should be using for that gear. Hopefully I can get a gear sooner than later. Not an ideal way for a motor to start its life.

4pointslow, the tire size is p265 60 18

delexploder · June 14, 2015

Maybe you need a bronze gear

vroomzoomboom · June 14, 2015

yea, i was standing in front of the truck when i heard a "clank" and said what the hell was that??? then shortly after that don had said he has no oil presser and we shut it off. we both were getting a tad nervous because neither of us wanted to yank it out if we had do ding into in. i almost jumped for joy when i pulled they cam syncro out and saw the teeth shaved off it...if thats something to be happy about that is.....

Dono · June 14, 2015

Nicole (Ford Strokers) tells me they use steel distributor gears.
I would think bronze would be softer than steel, so probably not ideal.

As with anything else, there is no standard as to shaft size. I'll need to get the old gear off and measure before ordering a new one.

CDW6212R · June 14, 2015

The roller cams take the steel distributor gears. It's a big subject at times, but the steel gear is the right thing.

You did the right thing, to shut it down quickly.

It usually comes down to the fitment into the cam gear, the depth etc, and a little oiling. The oiling is easy to handle with a tiny hole drilled into the oil plug there in front where the distributor is. The alignment of the gears should be fine with a quality distributor(or synchronizer).

I don't know why it's a problem sometimes. I think the best trick is to always compare a known good distributor with a new part, making sure the gear depth is the same, and the roll pin looks installed right. The cheap brands are known to shear the pins off, avoid the lesser parts store brands.

BTW, how much did that one cost from RA? I got one from eBay for about $105, and one from RA later.

Take it slow, drain the oil for sure, the filter is okay to keep on it for the short break in still.

Dono · June 14, 2015

The motorcraft syncro was $125.00 canadian.
I read of so many people having issues with anything but the motorcraft issue, thats the way I went. I'll get that gear off tomorrow, get shaft size measured up, and another gear asap.

I'm betting the gear that tore apart is iron. Definitely not compatible with my cam.

4pointslow · June 15, 2015

Teeth

Just a reminder, the oil is picked up through the oil pump BEFORE it is filtered.
There is a screen but how big are the holes in it?
You would not want metal getting sucked up in your oil pump.
Where are the teeth now? Can you be sure that draining the oil will be enough to get all the metal out of the engine?

I hate to even be the one to say it, but I would drop the pan.

Rick · June 15, 2015

Ouch that really sucks. Not what you want to see when starting a new motor

Best of luck getting it all sorted out.

Dono · June 15, 2015

Yes, not an ideal situation. I know the right thing to do id pull the pan, but that involves lifting the motor. To do that the front diff needs to come out, etc.

The screen is pretty fine on the pickup tube. Im going to dump the oil, and see how many teeth come out. I may try to devise some kind of a water pick that I can rinse the bottom of the pan thru the oil drain plug. The teeth would have sheered off in big pieces. I know this because I knocked a couple more teeth off trying to get the gear off the shaft.

I know I'm making you cringe right now 4pointslow, but lets see if I can get those teeth out. The more I read, the more I find this isn't all that uncommon. I just wish that oil pan was accessible in a reasonable way.

CDW6212R · June 15, 2015

Virtually all of the metal pieces should be in the pan, maybe a few the perfect size to stick in the oil pickup screen could be there. I wouldn't drop the pan unless the amount was enough that it could clog the screen. The smallest pieces which could get through the screen, would go into the oil filter. The filter is supposed to catch things bigger than about 15 microns. The worry is if a lot was in there and partially filled the pickup screen, or a lot of under 15
micron stuff gets through.

The synchronizers should all have steel gears, because all of the roller 302's require the hard steel gears. Who knows what those are, but try to follow up with some testing if possible. A poor fit of the two gears is the most likely cause. Don't use a soft gear thinking it will help, those will wear out fast on a hard cam gear, without much warning(oil analysis).

Dono · June 15, 2015

I ordered this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850460
The shaft measured .5315 I agree, it had to be poor fitment of the gear that caused the issue. I thought about the comp cams gear, but its pretty big money. As is, shipping is an absolute killer to get it here in 2-4 days.

CDW6212R · June 15, 2015

Very good, and see about finding a good used Explorer 302 synchronizer to compare with before installing the next one. I've never had a gear fail myself, but I think taking the extra step of checking new parts with good used ones is a wise move I'll make myself. I have one or two old ones that I wouldn't use in a nice fresh engine. I'll keep one handy for my rebuilds.

Dono · June 16, 2015

I was unsuccessful at getting gear chunks out tonight.

I drained the oil. nothing.

I thought...what next?
ok, so...oil pump works, oil drain plug is out, and whats in between the cam synchro and the oil pan. My thought was, not much. Next thought was, what does water do in the bottom of the motor? Lots of bad things if its in the bearings, although all winter the inside of the motor fills with frost as it freezes every night, and on startup theres tons of condensation as it warms up.
Well, knowing I can prime the crap out of the motor with oil I did the unthinkable.

Out came the garden hose and I dumped a gallon of water straight down to the pan to rinse the pan and push the gear bits out. Well, I can say, don't do that. No dice. Where's the gear bits? Are they lodged over the drain hole on the inside and not pushing thru? How is this possible?

After the last drop came out, I chased the syncro hole with oil. Then in went the drain plug and I filled with oil. I followed up with a long session of priming, rotate the motor slightly, prime more...repeat. No issue with oil, I could hear it dripping and splashing as it returned to the pan. I'm good with the bearings getting a good lubing.

The question still is, where's the gear bits? I know they are a good size, and after the gear broke its not like they were sucked in to the oil pickup screen.

At this point, its pretty much just install the new gear, run the motor up to temp, and drain oil again. Maybe I'll pick up a magnetic drain plug to use on the next change. I understand the big chunks are really not an issue, but I would also feel way better getting them out.

I finished my priming by setting the motor at tdc on #1 so I'm ready to install the synchro again.

vroomzoomboom · June 16, 2015

i will see if i can find someone with a borescope it should be small enough to get into the drain plug hole

Dono · June 16, 2015

That's a great idea! I never even thought about that.

CDW6212R · June 16, 2015

vroomzoomboom said:
i will see if i can find someone with a borescope it should be small enough to get into the drain plug hole

Good idea, that would be helpful. I bought one recently and haven't hooked it up to the laptop yet. Get one that does have simply a USB cable to use your laptop as a display. They sound like a great idea.

BTW, I'd go ahead and pull the oil filter. Cut that open and see if anything showed up there.

Dono · June 16, 2015

CDW6212R said:
Good idea, that would be helpful. I bought one recently and haven't hooked it up to the laptop yet. Get one that does have simply a USB cable to use your laptop as a display. They sound like a great idea.

BTW, I'd go ahead and pull the oil filter. Cut that open and see if anything showed up there.

I think I'll look for a scope that has a light on the end of it.

Also, no real point in pulling the oil filter yet, as when the gear broke, the pump quit sucking oil. The only oil thru the filter has been with me priming with the drill.

I did pick up a magnetic drain plug today. I'm going to find a rare earth magnet or two to stick to the bottom of the pan also.

edit: While sitting at my desk, I spotted a victim for my rare earth magnets.

shucker1 · June 16, 2015

Perhaps a very strong rare earth magnet and drag it from front to back on the pan toward the drain?

Hopefully it would drag any particles along with it like iron filings on a sheet of paper.

Just a guess...

Turdle · June 16, 2015

shucker1 said:
Perhaps a very strong rare earth magnet and drag it from front to back on the pan toward the drain?

Hopefully it would drag any particles along with it like iron filings on a sheet of paper.

Just a guess...

Good suggestion!

4pointslow · June 16, 2015

Teeth

Maybe they are in here(see picture) and that's why they are not coming out the oil pan.

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