Contemplating 5.0L rebuild for mild performance boost

[410Fortune]

Yes

The Fluid to fluid cooler inside the stock trans is about 2” tall and 3” long. It does very little to cool but it actually heats the Mercon v in cold climates. I wish it was larger because fluid/fluid coolers are the best. So we bypass it.

Adding a second stock aux cooler is pretty easy, plenty of room behind grill for one on both sides

 

[Mesozoic]

I often use my Mountaineer in snow where the ambients hover around 0C. I do believe there is benefit in heating up the ATF to a reasonable level as well because the fluid viscosity can be an issue in extremely cold climates, just like engine oil. In fact, if you look at the transmission control tables and curves in the ECM there's stuff in there related to the TOT (transmission oil temperature), so I think it's monitoring the fluid temperature and making some decisions based on that.

 

[Blown]

Cool, I am going to look at my entries into DD3, I read that the E303+ cam profile is better across the board and really gains in the upper RPMS. Your DD curves reflect that.

TMH's are killer on these! Again awesome choices/combo to work well together with that cam.

Sounds close, Good Luck on initial start-up!!!

 

[99rangert]

Yes, this is true. I figured since that's how the trans came out, perhaps that's how it would go back together as well. I will figure it out... one way or another, but I appreciate the guidance there. I do not like hanging out on my back anymore, these days!

The headers arrived. They look good! In my case, the Felpro 1487 gasket is necessary to match the exhaust ports in the heads.

View attachment 448937

Mesozoic, so you ordered those headers from Bob October 2022?​

 

[Mesozoic]

Mesozoic, so you ordered those headers from Bob October 2022?​

Yes, ordered in October '22. Received January '24.

 

[99rangert]

Yes, ordered in October '22. Received January '24.

Thanks, I ordered my set March 2023, so guess they will eventually show up.

 

[Mesozoic]

It appears that they will, maybe a little quicker these days, unclear on what the holdup was. My EGR tube was unfinished, however and would typically need some kind of customization for an aftermarket intake anyway… just something to note.

 

[410Fortune]

Robert builds/has them produced in batches of 10-20 as I understand so if your order didn’t make the batch it has to wait for the next batch

 

[CDW6212R]

Robert builds them in batches if 10-20 as I understand so if your order didn’t make the batch it has to wait for the next batch

Torsen makes their front D35 differentials like that, in batches of about 20 at a time. It took about a year to get an email telling me they were in production of them and an ETA.

 

[99rangert]

Robert builds/has them produced in batches of 10-20 as I understand so if your order didn’t make the batch it has to wait for the next batch

Thanks, I heard that, just hoping the next batch is soon!

 

[Mesozoic]

Well, the only thing preventing it from running now is what appears to be a bad ground reference for the MAF. I've got a high voltage on the MAF that is causing the EEC to dump a lot of fuel into the motor trying to idle.

 

[410Fortune]

Interesting
How did you figure this out and what is causing it?

 

[Mesozoic]

Interesting
How did you figure this out and what is causing it?

Well, the new engine fired right up. However, it soon required working the throttle to remain running. I managed to run it up to about 1500 RPM and maintain that, but the system started injecting a lot of fuel for some reason. The MAF is showing around 2.0V which is like 50-60% load, which would obviously be abnormal for an idle. I did get it up to temp, but she's pig rich and I'm not sure why. I have a smoke machine and was planning to run a smoke test on the assembly as well as check the fuel pressure since I did replace the pump, although I don't suspect that to be an issue.

 

[Mesozoic]

Posted this on the Tweecer group earlier and here it is, verbatim.

My friend owns his own automotive shop and is one of the best techs I've ever seen. He graciously took time away from his family to spend a few hours with me in my shop, struggling with this Mountaineer situation. What we did:

1. Checked fuel pressure.
   1. Key on results in 65 psi dead on, no issues.
   2. Pressure while running appears to be in the 67-68 psi range, so the fuel system upgrade does not appear to be a problem.
2. Checked cylinder balance using Ford IDS diagnostics.
   1. Shows that cylinder 7 and 4 are basically non-contributors.
   2. Seems to be firing, but loading up with excessive fuel on these cylinders.
   3. Swapped ignition coils, no change in performance. Consistent misfiring.
   4. Seems like injectors 7 and 4 are being held open and not controlled via the EEC.
3. Backprobed MAF. Checks out, nothing wrong with the MAF.
4. Swapped to an identical EEC-V unit. REAC4 strategy, EQE3 tear code.
   1. Had to reprogram it for PATS and other modules, including VIN update and update the key.
   2. Tweecer RT not installed on the new EEC.
   3. Fired up and would not idle since the MAF transfer and injector slopes were incorrect, but was not misfiring.
   4. Cylinders 7 and 4 cleared up and as long as throttle was held, the engine ran reasonably well and smoothly.

I spoke with Adam Marrer of CoreTuning earlier. He mentioned that he's seen that some Tweecer devices do not work well with the last generation of EEC-V computers because of a potential memory space addressing limitation. I suspect I have that issue and that is somewhat confirmed by the fact that the stock EQE3 tune will run the engine without misfiring. Once I plug in the Tweecer, the misfiring madness begins, unfortunately. I may need to switch to using my Quarterhorse for the tuning process at this stage.

 

[CDW6212R]

How much would you have to do to swap to a PCM from a 2003/2004 Crown Vic? Similar models have the same computer level, that's the most common to find and what people use the most. That would solve any limitation issue, but how much is needed to maintain all of your wiring and ignition system etc, I'm not sure.

That's the PCM I have to do my Mark VII project, but I'll also opt for the COP and be wiring in a Mustang harness because it matches the existing wiring layout. I'm planning to get tuning help for that, Decipha's website and the QH.

 

[Mesozoic]

The factory EEC implementation for the Ex/Mounty is quite refined, so it’d be great if I were able to start with it. I could throw a CDAN4 setup in there too, I have everything for tuning that and my old tune from my 4R70W based 408W, but that’s throwing in the towel.

 

[Mesozoic]

The EEC-V tuning situation is out of control!

First I tried using the Tweecer RT. The vendor that makes these units provides instructions on how to set it up for working with the late model EEC-Vs which is specifically a "Two 4 bank tune" strategy definition. I have not been able to get this to work and in fact, it ran my brand new engine so rich that I had to dump the oil because it was totally contaminated with fuel.

So I reached out to CoreTuning and got a definition for REAC4, which is what the EQE3 code on my EEC-V indicates it is. Well, we were having problems configuring this because at some point, this vehicle went back to Ford, presumably for service and was updated with a new flash. It went from REAC4 to READ0 and who knows what the catch code is now. So, I'm still unable to tune the computer, but working with CoreTuning on figuring all of that out. The bottom line is that just because your stock EEC-V shows a certain catch code, there's no guarantee that's what it's actually flashed with.

Bottom line is that I've not been able to fire the engine up successfully yet, due to these tuning specific issues - something for others to be aware of when considering an overhaul like I did. My suggestion for anyone attempting this would be to reach out to CoreTuning and make sure they're able to obtain a Quarterhorse for the live tuning part and then pick up an SCT chip or one of the newer TI offerings for the permanent chip... or find a way to flash the final tune back onto the EEC-V directly, since that is a possibility with this generation of computer as well, but requires some different tools that are normally only found in dealerships. Another thing to note is that due to the legalities of exposing Ford's intellectual property, definitions from CoreTuning do not include the PID names themselves, which I found to be a very annoying, but have accepted.

 

[CDW6212R]

I bought my QH package from Core Tuning, I enjoyed the conversation with them about the various tuning devices. They can help with the tuning part using some of their products, and licenses. I decided then I was better off letting someone else do my tunes, because I won't be making any changes after the initial builds. So the cost is each vehicle doing it with EFItuning, lower for each one. The cost is high for the first one, and much less for the next couple.

I hope you get your truck worked out, I learned back then how unique each computer(the catch code) is, not all have definitions available etc.

I expect to possibly go back to Core Tuning for more help to get the 2014 PCM tuned, we'll see how that goes to tune the 6R trans.

 

[Blown]

Tweecer is working for me with REAC4.

I am pretty sure I had to change the bank count with the tweecer disconnected from the EEC????.

Perhaps just get a REAC4 computer which will work with the Tweecer???

Perhaps 80lbs injectors at 65 psi are going to behave differently at idle? AND, Just to be sure, have you recalibrated the injector slopes for 65psi? My injector slopes for 43lb rated injectors are rated at 55lbs at 64psi.

That is all I got , other than I am using the same Tweecer RT device and same REAC4 strategy to tune successfully with 2 - 4 banks tunes set.

 

[Mesozoic]

Tweecer is working for me with REAC4.

I am pretty sure I had to change the bank count with the tweecer disconnected from the EEC????.

Perhaps just get a REAC4 computer which will work with the Tweecer???

Perhaps 80lbs injectors at 65 psi are going to behave differently at idle? AND, Just to be sure, have you recalibrated the injector slopes for 65psi? My injector slopes for 43lb rated injectors are rated at 55lbs at 64psi.

That is all I got , other than I am using the same Tweecer RT device and same REAC4 strategy to tune successfully with 2 - 4 banks tunes set.

That's good to hear. What size is your .CCF file (tune)? Mine is showing up as 116K, which I think is a bit small for a 4 bank tune. I believe this is the problem - the Tweecer is not working in its 2-4 bank tune mode correctly. Could be user error, not discounting that. I did manage to set it to this mode with the Tweecer disconnected from the EEC, on my bench.