Contemplating 5.0L rebuild for mild performance boost

[410Fortune]

Holley?
Aftermarket pcm and trans controller
Maybe cheaper and easier?

 

[Mesozoic]

Holley?
Aftermarket pcm and trans controller
Maybe cheaper and easier?

Haha, yeah that would definitely be easier, but I think we're going to get through this.

 

[Blown]

I have only have needed to adjust the base timing table and base fuel table.

I was looking for and can't find a piece I had on how the EECV calculates Load.

 

[Mesozoic]

Once you put a healthy cam into one of these machines, you're going to be retuning a lot more than a couple of tables. The fuel tables are actually fine as is, but the transient fueling is what's responsible for the enrichment in various conditions if you've pumped up the airflow in the engine with HCI, exhaust, blower, etc.

 

[Blown]

So, you are up to the challenge, been there done that and going deeper than I ever have tuned. Wow, Go Man, Go!

Ahhh, I was goin to mention the cam. I have kept things simple for me with the stock cam or in the past with one that I know plays nice. I do understand that all of what you see in the Tweecer tuning software is not broken-out to work with. I have seen Mike G. only break-out the only primary tuning variables. He would work with you to break additional ones, but you'd also need to utilize ForScan to tidy up modules, and you got this working. I originally bought my Tweecer for a Bronc and then used it to tune or help tune several additional strategies. This is why I was willing to pay for his help a couple times now, even though he will help for free online. I got direct, fast service by doing so.


I am interested in what you tune to make these changes. I know the old acceleration pump/acceleration enrichment is no longer in these strategies. I have not had to work with Tip-in and there are many other Tables for fuel and timing.

I went looking for Load info and did find a Load Scaling Switch. It will calculate load three different ways. The switch is set to 1 in my tune. Thanks for playing/updates and info.

 

[Blown]

The stock tailpipes are 2-1/4". I gave credit to MuscleJunkie for the tail pipe size. I wondered why his guys went with 2-1/4" tailpipes. I wouldn't have thought of going a bit smaller till I saw that the Pro's did on his. It makes sense that the headers, cats, mufflers, resonators and pipes will take a bunch of heat out which reduces exhaust volume. The theory is that the smaller tubes will help keep exhaust velocity to the rear. This would favor more scavenging, resulting in low-end torque improvement. They seem to be large enough to not restrict flow on the top end. I think it makes sense for a daily driver operating mostly at lower rpms. I'll post-up if I feel that 2-1/4" is not enough when I get my Spray tune, horsepower up, and better 2-1/2" downpipes/larger cats added. We do have Musclejunkie's professionally built exhaust for an example. I assume we are not going to get much over 400hp with the headers anyway and the stock tailpipe makes for a much easier DIY.

 

[Mesozoic]

So far... not done yet, but I did drive it into work this morning and thought it is running rather well.

 

[Mesozoic]

The engine is definitely breaking in. Part throttle driving is somewhat fun after tuning the transient fueling because the acceleration is good and the sound of the engine is nice, only up to about 4000 RPM where I'm running it up to currently. With less than 200 miles on the engine, I don't want to wrap it up, but definitely interested in loading the rings and bedding them into the cylinders.

The ignition timing curves need some work as I'm not sure where peak power is, but in exploring that I discovered that my definition had something awry with 2 of the spark tables exposed in the definition. The EEC-V has several spark sources, but the main ones are the Borderline Knock table, the MBT table and the Base tables (includes a sealevel and altitude version). The computer will algorithmically pick the lowest spark advance out of the available spark sources, so you essentially simplify things for yourself by eliminating the base tables. What I've done in the past with other projects is to set the Base tables to 60 degrees in every cell to essentially disable their contribution to the spark calculation.

Anyway, in playing with this I helped identify a shortcoming in the READ0 strategy definition where the base spark tables were not correctly displayed and adjustments to them currently have no effect. So, I'm currently hamstrung with the lack of the ability to adjust the spark tables properly. The team at CoreTuning has been very helpful in this regard, however so looking forward to an update from them so I can continue my tuning adventures.

 

[Blown]

Cool, Ya man thanks for posting all you have tuned.

The, basic or stock cams with boost has allowed me to only need to use the Base Timing Table. I played with altitude timing back when the EECIV had a barometer. On this tune, I adjusted the "X" normalizer for Timing up to 1.1 load after I saw it calculating up to 120 at full boost. Timing is cut back drastically at a loads above 80% for boost, but I do have a little curve from 80 to 110 because, more timing helps when pulling hills at lower rpm and lower boost.

Glad it's running well and I am sure it will get more betterer!

 

[Mesozoic]

Hot start recording.

 

[Blown]

Oh Man!
Sounds good!

But who likes a sound of a small block ford with cam, headers ,and custom tune???

 

[Mesozoic]

Oh Man!
Sounds good!

But who likes a sound of a small block ford with cam, headers ,and custom tune???

That's with the stock downpipe (all 4 cats) and only a Magnaflow muffler upgrade!

 

[Mesozoic]

Ok, so this really is a Tweecer FTW situation. I got a reasonable tune going using the Quarterhorse on a junkyard EQE3/REAC4 box that my friend subsequently (accidentally) flashed to FLN0/READ0. The 1st indication that things were not right was the spark timing. The engine isn't able to achieve cruise level timing in the 40s and has been pulling from what it indicates are the base/altitude spark tables which I had set all to 60 degrees. That aside, I thought my new converter had a soft lockup, but this is not true at all either.

I transcribed the entire tune from the Quarterhorse to the Tweecer RT using CalEdit last night and was amazed at the performance increase! Spark timing is working correctly, the lockup is functioning for the 1st time ever and there are no fueling issues at all. The Tweecer definition for REAC4 doesn't expose transient fueling and a few other things that would be handy for tuning the idle more precisely, but it does work.

 

[Blown]

AWESOME! It feels great to get a breakthrough and after the work of transferring the whole tune.

I suspect my tune could use a bit of work using additional tables. It's rich on acceleration, not bad with boost, but I want more control. That would be transient fuel tables vs the old accel pump? Mike G will work with you and owes me service on REAC4. He worked with me to look at possible fan control and we found the hardware was not in the Explorer EEC. He also unlocked the Scaler, "Nominal AFR" for me when I was taking a serious look at running E85. You can change overall air fuel with it to change to stoic for different fuel types.

I likely have the latest revision of the strategy. I would like to exchange tunes with you. I would like to learn a bit more and need to do some more tuning and fine tuning. I got a new Wide Band O2 to install and meth/H2O spray. I wanted Mike's help, so I bought a new tweecer for my Explorer and REAC4. Mike will work with me to break the tune-out further. I don't mind contributing to him and got the extra Tweecer RT I wanted. I'd be further along with installing the wide band and spray but great skiing conditions keep getting in the way, darn! I think he would break-out what is needed if I called and let him know what I wanted to tune?

 

[Mesozoic]

AWESOME! It feels great to get a breakthrough and after the work of transferring the whole tune.

I suspect my tune could use a bit of work using additional tables. It's rich on acceleration, not bad with boost, but I want more control. That would be transient fuel tables vs the old accel pump? Mike G will work with you and owes me service on REAC4. He worked with me to look at possible fan control and we found the hardware was not in the Explorer EEC. He also unlocked the Scaler, "Nominal AFR" for me when I was taking a serious look at running E85. You can change overall air fuel with it to change to stoic for different fuel types.

I likely have the latest revision of the strategy. I would like to exchange tunes with you. I would like to learn a bit more and need to do some more tuning and fine tuning. I got a new Wide Band O2 to install and meth/H2O spray. I wanted Mike's help, so I bought a new tweecer for my Explorer and REAC4. Mike will work with me to break the tune-out further. I don't mind contributing to him and got the extra Tweecer RT I wanted. I'd be further along with installing the wide band and spray but great skiing conditions keep getting in the way, darn! I think he would break-out what is needed if I called and let him know what I wanted to tune?

Thanks, yeah, it was quite the breakthrough. I was able to run the vehicle hard to break it in. Still some tuning to be done, but now I need to retorque the headers and the intake manifold. Especially the intake because I can see something seeping out of the water jacket passages on the ends slightly.

I'm curious what you discovered with the E-fan control. Are you saying that the output pins on the EEC-V don't switch when you hit the temperature setpoints? I had dual fan control working with CDAN4, which is quite a bit older than REAC4, so I can't see them having trashed this functionality since a lot of other vehicles, like Mustangs came with E-fans stock. For the CDAN4 setup I had, I wired the EEC pin output to the ground of the field coil in the relay controlling the fan and that's how it successfully controls the E-fans.

I'm not sure I can post the CCF file on here, but I will try later when I get home. If not, just PM me your email address and you can check my tune out.

 

[Blown]

Yikes, no coolant leaks!

I wired for fan control pin-outs and had no control with the REAC4 Strategy broken-out for the cooling fan. Mike G and I concluded that there was no hardware in the Explorer EECV for fan control.

I'm in ski mode for a few weeks, Yo, that means I got recovery time in between to tune/research/installation/Etc. I will pass you my email via Text and be glad to shoot you back my tune and work to get a bit more broken-out to tune better.

 

[Blown]

Hey thanks for the knowledge about REAC4 and the max injector size! I was able to set my injector slopes to the max of 53. That is firing these injectors 7% rich, so I leaned the whole MAF curve by 7%. I had the fueling very close before, close enough that the eec would compensate, but this is better in keeping closer to stoic throughout the RPM and load range. Thanks!

I recently did spark plugs and I did see some richness. I pulled back open loop fueling a bit, but fuel is boost cooling for now. I hope to get the spray working well enough to add timing and reduce fuel.

I see how much work you did with the transmission. Resembles many of the tweecs I made before with a very aggressively built E4OD.

Has it broken-in, loosened-up, and making all that power? Are you happy with shifting? Happy with tuning?

 

[Mesozoic]

It's definitely getting there and by swapping in the Tweecer RT instead of the Quarterhorse with the READ0 definition from CoreTuning, it runs really good. A whole bunch of stuff wasn't working with the QH/READ0 thing, including converter lockup, spark timing and idle speed adjustments. Who knows what else is broke with that definition, I'm surprised it ran the engine at all!

With the Tweecer in place I was able to drive and achieve a break-in run, loading the rings up and, etc. After that it was obvious that the exhaust (headers) and intake needed to be retorqued, so that's currently where it's at. I also discovered a minor valve cover leak at the oil fill tube, so fixed that too. Just need to reassemble the upper intake and continue driving it, it should be ready for its first 500 miles oil change in about 100 more miles of driving.

Since I had focused on getting the truck running using the QH/READ0 route, the trans tuning had to be completely revised since the lockup wasn't working. I think I have a handle on that with my newest tune, but I also discovered that I was hitting a rev limiter at about 5000 RPM, so I need to remove that and test again.

 

[Blown]

As you know, the stock tune on the transmission is very mild to match the grocery getter cam and it "Red-Lines" pretty early. I can stretch it out a bit to higher rpm with boost, but nothing like that Summit 303+ cam.

You'll soon need to be able to stretch that engine out with break-in complete!

 

[Mesozoic]

You might consider swapping in a stock Mustang HO roller cam... I believe it's quite conducive to blower applications and runs out to 6250 RPM without issue. In fact, I think I have one sitting on the shelf in my shop.