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Cummins First Gen Build Thread (no really)

Kiliona

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Hello Everyone!

I’ve been a member of this forum for a long time – apparently since 2013. However, in recent years I haven’t been spending as much time here unfortunately due to neglecting my exploder. Well the exploder is back and its finally time for me to post a build thread!

Most everything I know about explorers can be attributed to this forum so I’m hoping that I can give back for all the wonderful information that’s been given to me by giving an in depth look into something I’ve only seen done once before (I’m looking at you 12valvepower).

No, the title is not a joke. I’m going to build a diesel first gen. Not just any diesel, a Cummins. No, not a 4bt, a 6bt. When I was deciding what engine to use I originally considered 4BT’s (4 cylinder cummins) and it turns out I could get an entire 6BT (6 cylinder 5.9L turbodiesel cummins) donor truck for less then it’d take to get just a 4BT engine – and the donor truck would save me A LOT of money in parts on top of that all while making much more power. For me personally I'd rather pick the better drivetrain and have WAY more fabrication and design work to do, then pick the much easier and more sensible option that would also be much more expensive. Time vs cost and all that, for me I enjoy the work so cost is valued much higher then time is. I was able to find a donor truck with a 12 valve and a P-Pump (the most desirable version) for half the price some people were asking for 4BT's. That being said I wouldn't exactly suggest anyone follows in my foot steps. Depending on how the build goes I'd probably recommend to anyone else to do a 4BT instead if they wanted to do this, but I guess we'll see how it turns out!

You might be thinking I’m in over my head, and that’s fair enough, but I promise this build will endup being finished and not just collecting dust. In fact I have about 2 months work for this first post to catch yall up on, so pardon this first post being extremely long.

I will be posting the juiciest pictures and information here, however I will also be posting much more in depth videos on youtube so if you want more information then what is given here please take a look at this playlist (mods if I’m not allowed to link my youtube channel in this way please let me know and I’ll delete it – I didn’t see anything against it in the forum rules). My channel’s name is “Build Theory” and the explorer playlist is here:

My goal for this build is honestly just to have a 4x4 that's an absolute riot of fun to drive every time I get in it. I also want it to be a somewhat capable all arounder that's capable of both highway driving and trail running, but mostly it's just the thought of how much joy a cummins explorer will bring that is my motivation. I realize it's a pretty stupid build, that IS the fun of it after all ;).

Let’s start the build thread! Let’s begin with removing the engine from the donor truck. I chose to remove the front clip and radiators, remove the fenders, clearance the cowl, and pull the whole engine tranny and all out the front. In the first picture you can see the cowl before it met the Sawzall.

1604708502897.png


And here’s the cowl after it’s meeting with the Sawzall

1604708593811.png


If you’re ever removing one of these engines and don’t want to destroy the cowl you can either lift the cab off (easiest, requires hoist) or remove the rear valve covers and possibly the cylinder head to get it out.

Here’s the engine coming out. Notice we had a tow rope hooked to the engine hoist, the hoist does NOT like rolling with a 1200 pound engine + a who knows how heavy transmission on it! So we hooked up my GF’s Jeep to save our backs.
1604708615528.png

Here’s the engine on the ground with the old auto transmission removed
1604708627171.png

And here’s the NV4500 that’s going in it instead (5 speed manual, granny 1st 5.61:1). Note that I’m missing a bellhousing, clutch stuff, and transfer case. Those and possibly axles are the biggest purchases I still need to make before I have all the major components for the build together.
1604708641257.png

At this point I had to take a break for a week or two. I have a bunch of vehicles needing moved around for this project and I was tired of giving U-haul money to use their car haulers and having to plan everything around when I had a trailer and when I didn’t so I bought and fixed up the cheapest car hauler I could find (only $950!). I bought the trailer, repacked the hubs, rewired the lights, and made a mount for a cheap HF winch so now I have a half decent car hauler (still needs a new deck) and can get the explorer(s) home from where I was storing them.

After some work on the trailer I was able to get the explorer home. Only issue was the thing was missing a rear axle – made loading and unloading it pretty difficult. Note, my original explorer was green and this white one was the parts car. However the body and frame are in very good condition on the white one, whereas the green ones rockers were rusted off and undercarriage was in rough shape, so the white one will be the platform I build on, and the green one will now be the parts car and donate some manual transmission parts.
1604708662366.png

First thing I did was remove the fenders and rest of the front end bits.
1604708684211.png

I was hoping when I did this that underneath I’d find something I could unbolt and remove from the rest of the body – like the dodge truck I had also just done this on. However no luck, it’s all spot welded on and there’s lots of random sub-body bits that are in the way. So naturally I brought out the air hammer to knock out all the spot welds from the front the front and remove it. No way the cummins was fitting with that in the way unless I planned on using the rear cylinder as an arm rest.
1604708711923.png

Next I needed to get the engine out, so first things first remove the AC condenser… except somehow on this 25+ year old car it managed to still be full of R12. So that meant back on the trailer to drive to the Ford dealership which was the only place in town that could evacuate R12 >.<. Worse then that, I got it home, pulled it off the trailer, and it was STILL full of R12 :banghead:. Ford couldn’t figure out how to evacuate the system I guess. Rather then throw it back on the trailer AGAIN I got annoyed and just removed the whole AC system in 1 piece – still sealed. Can’t wait to see the look on the dealers face when I slap that on their desk.
1604708735229.png

After that unfortunate event, finally time to get the V6 out. Anyone need a low mileage 4.0? Here’s what it looks like next the cummins. The cummins is a... bit... bigger.
1604708746788.png

Here’s the now very empty engine bay:
1604708766853.png

And here’s the cummins test fit in there
1604708774270.png

The areas that are really tight are one, the starter is close to the steering rack (should be okay ultimately), 2, the turbo and exhaust manifold are sitting where the AC evaporator used to be, and 3, of course the engines a "bit" too long.
1604708784485.png

1604708799903.png

Also related to 1 and 2, the bellhousing won’t quite clear, but I don’t know how much clearencing it will need quite yet. You can see in the next picture the position of the engine is mostly being dictated by where the oil pan fits behind the TTB front suspension, and I don’t quite have it in the right place in this test fit yet – the engine will be lower by about 3 inches and further back by about 1 inch which should help with the bellhousing and possibly exhaust issues. One thing I could consider if this ends up sitting too far back is flipping the oil pan around to a front sump and moving the engine forward even more.

1604708838201.png

It will also require some custom/hybrid motor mounts since the normal cummins mounts would be too wide for the frame.

The biggest issue to address to make this work is that the front part of the body will no longer fit in its stock location. At least, not without setting the engine much further back then I’d like to where 1 or 2 cylinders would then be in the cab. To address this I am going to be moving the radiator support forward a few inches and will have to endup making new fenders and a new hood that are about 2” longer then stock. I wanted to use the dodge radiator and radiator support since the intercooler would fit very nicely on the support, but the headlights are kind of in the way so I may endup still using the stock support. My plan for “stretching” the hood and fenders is to try my hand at making my own custom fiberglass pieces, but if this does not work I’ll just patch some more sheet metal into the existing pieces with the welder, or run it with no hood and fenders hotrod style ;) (JK.. unless?.. no jk... Unless?). However I won’t know exactly until I get the body off and get a better idea of the motor mounts and such to determine where the drivetrain’s permanent home will be.

This brings us up to the present. The biggest things I need to address are one, sourcing a bellhousing and clutch components and a transfer case, and two, sorting out the front and rear axles. I originally planned on using the stock ford 8.8 rear, however the dana 70 from the dodge truck is looking much more appealing to me now. Not only is it a full floating axle with huge drum brakes and beefier then frig, but it also has 3.54’s compared to the ford’s 3.73s, which given that in stock form the cummins only rev’s to about 25-2800 RPM the taller gears would be helpful. However, parts are expensive and it’s an open dif. AND I would have to run 16" wheels and new tires when I already have a set of 31's on some 15's. Additionally it’s very wide and would likely need narrowed. On the front I was honestly just planning on leaving the stock dana 35 until the truck was running and the bugs were sorted out, then upgrading it later, but my rear decisions might depend on my front since I don’t want to go narrowing the rear just to find out my front ends up too wide comparatively. Anyone have good information on how strong/upgradable the front dana 35 is? At what power/torque/gears are people actually breaking them? Seen very mixed opinions with some even saying a TTB dana 35 is as strong as a solid axle dana 44. Anyways, haven’t figured out my axle situation quite yet but basically my options are to leave the ford 8.8 rear and dana 35 front until the trucks actually running and upgrade later (I would weld the tubes on the 8.8, rear shouldn’t have any issue 8.8 is tough enough for a stock 6bt IMO, I would be very careful in 4wd if I left the dana 35), or the better but more expensive option would be to put the dana 70 in the rear and find a full size front end as well. I’d like to keep TTB which limits my options to essentially a TTB dana 44 or modifying a TTB dana 50 to take coil springs which could give me the option of matching the dana 70’s 8 lug rear with 8 lug fronts… Anyways, I have a lot more thinking to do about differentials and suspension - especially the front. Anyone have any input on those? I’m sure what most people would do is swap a 1 ton front axle in, but I’m personally kind of partial to TTB (not saying I couldn’t be convinced though). If I did more rock crawling I'm sure I'd feel differently.

Next step will be removing the body, fabricating up all the drivetrain mounts and such, and possibly beefing up the frame. Hope to see you then! One last shameless plug, if you want to see this build in video format checkout my most recent video on youtube.


Otherwise, I'll be back again soon once I get the body off!

1604708822471.png
 


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Rick

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Lovin' it :D What a great thread!:chug:
 








Rick

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As far as lengthening the fenders, I think the best place to do it would be in the center of the wheel opening. Slice the fender in half and then add the required amount of material from a donor. That would preserve the wheel well arches.

IMO there is no way a D35's axle bearing will deal well with the added weight. Another down side of the D35 is the two piece axle. I have seen the coupler open up in a spiral like a Pillsbury dough can and that' was with just the 4.0 in front.
 




410Fortune

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6bt in a Gen I? holy smokes
That is a huge power plant to stuff in there
Thanks for sharing
 




timtimtimajim

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Excited to see where this goes!!
 




Kiliona

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As far as lengthening the fenders, I think the best place to do it would be in the center of the wheel opening. Slice the fender in half and then add the required amount of material from a donor. That would preserve the wheel well arches.

IMO there is no way a D35's axle bearing will deal well with the added weight. Another down side of the D35 is the two piece axle. I have seen the coupler open up in a spiral like a Pillsbury dough can and that' was with just the 4.0 in front.

That's good advice about the fenders for sure. If I endup going the fiberglass route then while I'm doing that I'll also try to widen and exaggerate the wheel arch as well (think prerunner style haha, but fiberglass may turn out MUCH more difficult then my hours of youtubing fiberglass videos has lead me to believe). If I just go sheet metal then perhaps I can take 2" out of the center of my other explorer's fender and add that to this explorers fender, + body fill and paint (very little body experience though, this project will finally force me to do some).

Good point about the bearings and coupler. Anyone have any experience with TTB dana 44's and TTB dana 50s? Specifically I'm wondering if the ultimate front end for this would be a dana 50 with coils swapped on. When I'm at the junkyard getting my transfercase and such I need to take a good look at some 4x4 full size trucks front ends and see what's feasible. And if I realize TTB will just be much more trouble then its worth (im sure plenty of people already think this haha) I'll start looking at solid axles.


6bt in a Gen I? holy smokes
That is a huge power plant to stuff in there
Thanks for sharing

Holy "smokes" you say? It will be a cummins after all 😁.
 




410Fortune

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Excited to see where this goes!!

Half way into the front seats would be my guess, fitting a straight six 5.9L into a Gen I will be interesting

HOWEVER there is a Gen III Explorer on here with a 7.3 powerstroke in it..... no AC but hey its got a 7.3!!
Anything is possible, although I can tell you many people have settled on the inline 4 (4bt) due to the length and weight of the 12v cummins............

just FYI I am not casting doubts, I don't care what ya build, I am all for it! RUN WHAT YA BRUNG
if you can pull this off them more power to ya. Im excited to see what you come up with ( a longer frame or a missing firewall, or both)
 




410Fortune

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WAIT you have a low mile 4.0 and you are in Idaho
Im interested how many miles on the 4.0 and where in Idaho??

Thanks!
 




dcgerard

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My first 4x4 is almost a spitting image of your green machine. I still have it, and I'm using it for parts for my white explorer now as well.
 




Kiliona

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Half way into the front seats would be my guess, fitting a straight six 5.9L into a Gen I will be interesting

😅 not quite, I hope. That's the biggest reason I removed the front rad support and everything since the engine would be pretty far back if I kept the stock fan and tried to squeeze it behind the stock radiator location, but I didn't want the engine in the cab so where it's sitting now should prevent that. Might have to find another place for the intercooler though haha. Now I will likely have to clearence the tranny tunnel some, but no engine in the cab if I can help it!

I DM'd you about that engine BTW. Will also have another higher mileage rebuilder 4.0 and an M50D and other assorted parts once I start taking the green explorer "parts" car apart.
 




92exp4x4

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I wondered when this swap would happen! I'm subscribing. You've got your work cut out for ya on this one.
 




410Fortune

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I like it!
I have seen some big engines go into these trucks over the years, mainly the desert race dudes, usually they chop out the firewall and push the drivetrain as far back and as down low as possible because they are concerned about being nose heavy and a high center of gravity...... just food for thought. I will PM you back about the engine thank you very much!
 




fordpickupman

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I agree with 410fortune, I’d cut out the firewall and move the engine rearward a couple cylinders worth of length. It will have much better road manners with the weight moved back. Then the sheet metal will be easy to replace if you ever need to. But I hate doing body work.
The phenomenal torque of the Cummins will be rowdy in that little sploder. I’d put 4k governor springs in it at a minimum. An auto would be easier to drive when you put your donkey ears on. I like them with built autos behind them anyhow.
hood stack?
 








GP Argie

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Hello Everyone!

I’ve been a member of this forum for a long time – apparently since 2013. However, in recent years I haven’t been spending as much time here unfortunately due to neglecting my exploder. Well the exploder is back and its finally time for me to post a build thread!

Most everything I know about explorers can be attributed to this forum so I’m hoping that I can give back for all the wonderful information that’s been given to me by giving an in depth look into something I’ve only seen done once before (I’m looking at you 12valvepower).

No, the title is not a joke. I’m going to build a diesel first gen. Not just any diesel, a Cummins. No, not a 4bt, a 6bt. When I was deciding what engine to use I originally considered 4BT’s (4 cylinder cummins) and it turns out I could get an entire 6BT (6 cylinder 5.9L turbodiesel cummins) donor truck for less then it’d take to get just a 4BT engine – and the donor truck would save me A LOT of money in parts on top of that all while making much more power. For me personally I'd rather pick the better drivetrain and have WAY more fabrication and design work to do, then pick the much easier and more sensible option that would also be much more expensive. Time vs cost and all that, for me I enjoy the work so cost is valued much higher then time is. I was able to find a donor truck with a 12 valve and a P-Pump (the most desirable version) for half the price some people were asking for 4BT's. That being said I wouldn't exactly suggest anyone follows in my foot steps. Depending on how the build goes I'd probably recommend to anyone else to do a 4BT instead if they wanted to do this, but I guess we'll see how it turns out!

You might be thinking I’m in over my head, and that’s fair enough, but I promise this build will endup being finished and not just collecting dust. In fact I have about 2 months work for this first post to catch yall up on, so pardon this first post being extremely long.

I will be posting the juiciest pictures and information here, however I will also be posting much more in depth videos on youtube so if you want more information then what is given here please take a look at this playlist (mods if I’m not allowed to link my youtube channel in this way please let me know and I’ll delete it – I didn’t see anything against it in the forum rules). My channel’s name is “Build Theory” and the explorer playlist is here:

My goal for this build is honestly just to have a 4x4 that's an absolute riot of fun to drive every time I get in it. I also want it to be a somewhat capable all arounder that's capable of both highway driving and trail running, but mostly it's just the thought of how much joy a cummins explorer will bring that is my motivation. I realize it's a pretty stupid build, that IS the fun of it after all ;).

Let’s start the build thread! Let’s begin with removing the engine from the donor truck. I chose to remove the front clip and radiators, remove the fenders, clearance the cowl, and pull the whole engine tranny and all out the front. In the first picture you can see the cowl before it met the Sawzall.

View attachment 323885

And here’s the cowl after it’s meeting with the Sawzall

View attachment 323886

If you’re ever removing one of these engines and don’t want to destroy the cowl you can either lift the cab off (easiest, requires hoist) or remove the rear valve covers and possibly the cylinder head to get it out.

Here’s the engine coming out. Notice we had a tow rope hooked to the engine hoist, the hoist does NOT like rolling with a 1200 pound engine + a who knows how heavy transmission on it! So we hooked up my GF’s Jeep to save our backs.
View attachment 323887
Here’s the engine on the ground with the old auto transmission removed
View attachment 323888
And here’s the NV4500 that’s going in it instead (5 speed manual, granny 1st 5.61:1). Note that I’m missing a bellhousing, clutch stuff, and transfer case. Those and possibly axles are the biggest purchases I still need to make before I have all the major components for the build together.
View attachment 323889
At this point I had to take a break for a week or two. I have a bunch of vehicles needing moved around for this project and I was tired of giving U-haul money to use their car haulers and having to plan everything around when I had a trailer and when I didn’t so I bought and fixed up the cheapest car hauler I could find (only $950!). I bought the trailer, repacked the hubs, rewired the lights, and made a mount for a cheap HF winch so now I have a half decent car hauler (still needs a new deck) and can get the explorer(s) home from where I was storing them.

After some work on the trailer I was able to get the explorer home. Only issue was the thing was missing a rear axle – made loading and unloading it pretty difficult. Note, my original explorer was green and this white one was the parts car. However the body and frame are in very good condition on the white one, whereas the green ones rockers were rusted off and undercarriage was in rough shape, so the white one will be the platform I build on, and the green one will now be the parts car and donate some manual transmission parts.
View attachment 323890
First thing I did was remove the fenders and rest of the front end bits.
View attachment 323891
I was hoping when I did this that underneath I’d find something I could unbolt and remove from the rest of the body – like the dodge truck I had also just done this on. However no luck, it’s all spot welded on and there’s lots of random sub-body bits that are in the way. So naturally I brought out the air hammer to knock out all the spot welds from the front the front and remove it. No way the cummins was fitting with that in the way unless I planned on using the rear cylinder as an arm rest.
View attachment 323892
Next I needed to get the engine out, so first things first remove the AC condenser… except somehow on this 25+ year old car it managed to still be full of R12. So that meant back on the trailer to drive to the Ford dealership which was the only place in town that could evacuate R12 >.<. Worse then that, I got it home, pulled it off the trailer, and it was STILL full of R12 :banghead:. Ford couldn’t figure out how to evacuate the system I guess. Rather then throw it back on the trailer AGAIN I got annoyed and just removed the whole AC system in 1 piece – still sealed. Can’t wait to see the look on the dealers face when I slap that on their desk.
View attachment 323893
After that unfortunate event, finally time to get the V6 out. Anyone need a low mileage 4.0? Here’s what it looks like next the cummins. The cummins is a... bit... bigger.
View attachment 323894
Here’s the now very empty engine bay:
View attachment 323895
And here’s the cummins test fit in there
View attachment 323896
The areas that are really tight are one, the starter is close to the steering rack (should be okay ultimately), 2, the turbo and exhaust manifold are sitting where the AC evaporator used to be, and 3, of course the engines a "bit" too long.
View attachment 323897
View attachment 323898
Also related to 1 and 2, the bellhousing won’t quite clear, but I don’t know how much clearencing it will need quite yet. You can see in the next picture the position of the engine is mostly being dictated by where the oil pan fits behind the TTB front suspension, and I don’t quite have it in the right place in this test fit yet – the engine will be lower by about 3 inches and further back by about 1 inch which should help with the bellhousing and possibly exhaust issues. One thing I could consider if this ends up sitting too far back is flipping the oil pan around to a front sump and moving the engine forward even more.

View attachment 323900
It will also require some custom/hybrid motor mounts since the normal cummins mounts would be too wide for the frame.

The biggest issue to address to make this work is that the front part of the body will no longer fit in its stock location. At least, not without setting the engine much further back then I’d like to where 1 or 2 cylinders would then be in the cab. To address this I am going to be moving the radiator support forward a few inches and will have to endup making new fenders and a new hood that are about 2” longer then stock. I wanted to use the dodge radiator and radiator support since the intercooler would fit very nicely on the support, but the headlights are kind of in the way so I may endup still using the stock support. My plan for “stretching” the hood and fenders is to try my hand at making my own custom fiberglass pieces, but if this does not work I’ll just patch some more sheet metal into the existing pieces with the welder, or run it with no hood and fenders hotrod style ;) (JK.. unless?.. no jk... Unless?). However I won’t know exactly until I get the body off and get a better idea of the motor mounts and such to determine where the drivetrain’s permanent home will be.

This brings us up to the present. The biggest things I need to address are one, sourcing a bellhousing and clutch components and a transfer case, and two, sorting out the front and rear axles. I originally planned on using the stock ford 8.8 rear, however the dana 70 from the dodge truck is looking much more appealing to me now. Not only is it a full floating axle with huge drum brakes and beefier then frig, but it also has 3.54’s compared to the ford’s 3.73s, which given that in stock form the cummins only rev’s to about 25-2800 RPM the taller gears would be helpful. However, parts are expensive and it’s an open dif. AND I would have to run 16" wheels and new tires when I already have a set of 31's on some 15's. Additionally it’s very wide and would likely need narrowed. On the front I was honestly just planning on leaving the stock dana 35 until the truck was running and the bugs were sorted out, then upgrading it later, but my rear decisions might depend on my front since I don’t want to go narrowing the rear just to find out my front ends up too wide comparatively. Anyone have good information on how strong/upgradable the front dana 35 is? At what power/torque/gears are people actually breaking them? Seen very mixed opinions with some even saying a TTB dana 35 is as strong as a solid axle dana 44. Anyways, haven’t figured out my axle situation quite yet but basically my options are to leave the ford 8.8 rear and dana 35 front until the trucks actually running and upgrade later (I would weld the tubes on the 8.8, rear shouldn’t have any issue 8.8 is tough enough for a stock 6bt IMO, I would be very careful in 4wd if I left the dana 35), or the better but more expensive option would be to put the dana 70 in the rear and find a full size front end as well. I’d like to keep TTB which limits my options to essentially a TTB dana 44 or modifying a TTB dana 50 to take coil springs which could give me the option of matching the dana 70’s 8 lug rear with 8 lug fronts… Anyways, I have a lot more thinking to do about differentials and suspension - especially the front. Anyone have any input on those? I’m sure what most people would do is swap a 1 ton front axle in, but I’m personally kind of partial to TTB (not saying I couldn’t be convinced though). If I did more rock crawling I'm sure I'd feel differently.

Next step will be removing the body, fabricating up all the drivetrain mounts and such, and possibly beefing up the frame. Hope to see you then! One last shameless plug, if you want to see this build in video format checkout my most recent video on youtube.


Otherwise, I'll be back again soon once I get the body off!

View attachment 323899
Hi Killions,
Nice peace of work.

Just to mention to the next ones that wanted to do the swap to a higher torque Diesel on 1st and 2nd Generation Explorers, the 1997-2012 South American built Rangers, were mostly built using International (Maxion) Turbo Diesel Engines.


Horse power rated from 125 hp for the 2.5 L 4 cylinder WG Turbo diesel 1999 2002 (I owned one of these and performance was good) to 180 hp for the latest 3.0 L 4 cylinder of latest models. The firsts used the Manual 5 speed bell housing so the swap with the Explorer was trivial (with the exception of GEM programming) so I've seen many 2nd gen Explorers with the Diesel swap.

Many of these Diesel Rangers were exported to Mexico (they're the 4 door cree cab) so may be you can find an engine donor just south of the border.

Hope this helps,

Kind regards from the South Pole
GP
 

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Kiliona

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Just to mention to the next ones that wanted to do the swap to a higher torque Diesel on 1st and 2nd Generation Explorers, the 1997-2012 South American built Rangers, were mostly built using International (Maxion) Turbo Diesel Engines.

Good info! I've heard of the nonUS market diesel rangers/explorers but I know very little about them. Why doesn't the US get nice things? haha.

I agree with 410fortune, I’d cut out the firewall and move the engine rearward a couple cylinders worth of length. It will have much better road manners with the weight moved back. Then the sheet metal will be easy to replace if you ever need to. But I hate doing body work.
The phenomenal torque of the Cummins will be rowdy in that little sploder. I’d put 4k governor springs in it at a minimum. An auto would be easier to drive when you put your donkey ears on. I like them with built autos behind them anyhow.
hood stack?

So a bit of a spoiler for my next post haha, full update will come in the next few days, but I've already gotten the body off the frame. Here's a picture of the front of the frame with no body. As you can see if I have a rear sump the position of the engine is already almost entirely determined by fitting the rear of the oil pan between the front crossmember and the crossmember behind it. Sump has to fit in the circle on the pic. However I COULD move that rear member back if I wanted to move the engine even further back. The reason I wasn't wanting to get too extreme with positioning it backwards is because I want to be able to work on it still without having to pull the body off or engine out. For example if it needs a headgasket I want to be able to remove the head, or even be able to set valve lash with the engine in the car. If I were to set it further back I would start to seriously runout of room for my right foot and the throttle (unless I did a big body lift) and I would have a much harder time working on the engine in the car (could maybe fix some of that if I did a custom dash with a removable middle section to get to the engine, but would likely still struggle on removing the head). I do agree though that in general when adding all the weight putting it further back is better, I just think there's a practical limit. If I were using this as a prerunner or some other balls to the wall build I would be setting it further back then I am now. Anyways though, I'm getting ahead of myself. I won't know exactly where it sits until I get the engine back on the frame and start working on the drivetrain mounts and compare the final height of it and everything to the body. Just pointing out my considerations for why I endup deciding on wherever it ends up (being able to work on it is more important then bad weight balance for me, to a degree of course). There will for sure be atleast some cutting on the firewall, a big hammer probably won't cut it, but I'll know soon enough!
InkedIMG_7954[2176]_LI.jpg


As far as the hood stack idea... I can't say it hasn't crossed my mind 😅 . Even though it'd be hilarious and much easier to do then a real exhaust, I'm already worried if this things wheels ever touch another state other then Idaho some state trooper will take one look at it and throw me in jail, can't give them even more motivation lol. (technically laws in most places say exhaust has to exit behind the driver).

Thank you all for all the discussion so far though!
 




Kiliona

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I’d put 4k governor springs in it at a minimum. An auto would be easier to drive when you put your donkey ears on. I like them with built autos behind them anyhow.

Almost forgot, it will definitely be getting a new governor spring. ESPECIALLY since I may endup sticking with my 3.73's for a time. It won't however be getting an auto, auto's are arguably much better in a lot of the situations I'd use this in, but I just love a stick too much. Already got an nv4500 5 speed for it, and the 47rh slushbox it came with is going up for sale shortly 😁
 


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fordpickupman

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71 F250 Fummins
How much you want for the RH?
 




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