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Going Electric?

I think a lot could be done to improve on hybrids - which have been on the market for years now and have a little bit of advantage. Rushing off to go whole hog on EVs is premature - BUT 'follow the money' as to who's looking to make money off pushing them - NOT restricted to the manufacturers of EVs, that is.
Yep, and honestly, I have nothing against hybrids I think they are great ideas but your correct pushing EVs like this is very premature
 



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I'm in between on all of this yes EVs are great for some applications but i honestly don't see how our infrastructure can handle it i mean here we might be able to handle it because we use nuclear power plants but still idk how it will work in the longterm plus most people down here will not go electric trust me soon enough we will be seeing more and more older cars on the roads and less newer or EVs
The average age of cars on the road in the USA is 12 years old and getting older! Price of new (and recent) cars beyond the reach of many, and they're increasingly more expensive to fix. Personally I see no reason to get a car/truck newer than the '90s (ok maybe up to 2010) Vehicles are depreciating assets, I like the 'return on investment' of old vehicles. Complexity costs money.
 






I just showed a infrastructure free 40 mile per day vehicle. It'll get you there , charge in the sun while you work, and get you home.

In a couple years, there will be a lot of those, even more daily range.
Let's put it this way if more manufactures like GM Dodge and Ford would stop giving in to political pressure, we wouldn't be having this push to EVs with that said i believe in the next 10 years we will see more EVs but i would say in the next 2 years there will be more ICEs on the road than EVs
 






The average age of cars on the road in the USA is 12 years old and getting older! Price of new (and recent) cars beyond the reach of many, and they're increasingly more expensive to fix. Personally I see no reason to get a car/truck newer than the '90s (ok maybe up to 2010) Vehicles are depreciating assets, I like the 'return on investment' of old vehicles. Complexity costs money.
Yep I mean we live in a throwaway society and that's the issue instead of fixing stuff most people get rid of it i mean my X for example sat 3 years all because of a bad fuel pump and it still ran with a bad pump just not good other than that i fixed a few things and drove it to Nashville 2 weeks later and it did great so that's my point most people don't need a new vehicle especially when the older ones are more reliable in general
 












Ideal world thought, read me through before yelling at me.

Imagine, like a switch, all vehicles were converted to electric. All of em. With the power and range they actually need.
You'd get a home charging station provided depending on situation you use to store your vehicle. Solar charging capable.

And another switch is thrown putting fossil fueled, mfv all fuel generators installed at a proper ratio to surplus electricity. These would burn as clean as possible. Since there are now so many smaller decentralized power units the grid is more stable.

I wager, the oil usage nationwide would be cut in half. co 2 would go way down. Oil companies still sell oil but profits are higher because less is delivered, to far less places. Even if fuel price doubled, the impact would be way less.

I know it isn't possible to do that.

Or is it?
 






@Turdle Try it yourself to test its cost, possibility, and convenience for one person, and now apply that cost and (in-) convenience to every person in the nation. Now, assume that the majority is a bunch of hard-heads who think the old way is better, so you have to convince them that your way is best, regardless of their bias. Now, overpower their bias without passing new laws, or raising taxes on the non-compliants, or offering monetary incentives to those who agree to comply. Physical possibility and better energy management are not the problems here - the real problems are the ones doing the pushing, and what else they're tying in with it.

I totally agree, your idea sounds great, the way you wrote it. The problem is that along with every word you wrote, there is an exploitation waiting to be used, that will inflict all manner of inconveniences, restrictions, and new or higher taxes by the ones who will be pushing it on us. We all know that theoretically, such a system is feasible, but we aren't so ignorant as to think the opportunity to shift to such a system wouldn't be exploited by the ones who have a consistent track record of exploiting everything possible to increase their own wealth, our beloved friends the politicians.

Good discussion in this thread, and it's true that the technology is constantly improving and shifting.

@Rick I understand that this forum aims to lower political friction by ignoring the subject, but the fact is that EV's and clean energy cannot be divorced from the politics that have married them. EV's, like every other piece of technology, have a great place in our society - just may be not on the public roads, may be not yet. A post you once made about the hardwired telephone in a prior thread about EV's comes to mind; the room-sized supercomputers boasting unbelievable megabytes of RAM for the first time come to mind. We now regularly use hand-held, wireless telephones with multi-core processors boasting many thousands of times more RAM, that can handle conference calls to several people around the globe, reliant upon a global system of networks, while simultaneously playing a video game (such as Fortnite) with 100 players around the globe on a separate system of networks, in less than 50 years of development - without encouragement or funding from the government.

If EV's and politics could be separated, I can see that the grid would open up to them on a nearly universal scale. Just like how E-mail replaced paper mail, cell phones replaced home phones, handheld calculators replaced clunky mechanical desktop units, and so many countless hundreds of other things have been superseded by newer options found to be more convenient and more affordable than their predecessors. All of this was founded upon the consumer market, and became the norm because the end consumers wanted to buy it because it was "better". The sustainability of a single item has never been a concern, except insofar as it costs, because the money goes to whoever sells the things that people want. If the battery-powered hand calculator is what people want, and the old desktop unit is going out of style, then in stead of making parts for the desktops, the companies will turn a profit by selling batteries for the handhelds. Shift in production and thus availability invariably comes with innovation in any given technology.

The Internet as a whole grew from Alexander Graham Bell's wonky telephone invention, and now allows end users, hackers, and governments to control our own, others, or targeted individuals' bank accounts, cars, home appliances, garage doors, security cameras, and basically everything else. Imagine how electric vehicles, allowed to flourish as the end users demand them, could advance beyond anything we can possibly dream of, within our own lifetimes.
 






We should be able to have a discussion about EVs, without politics. If not, I will just close the thread.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I'm 60 years old and have been reading about EVs being the future for decades. My father was an outside salesmen to the automotive industry and he always had trade publications in our house which I would read. Detroit has wanted EVs for ages. To them it is a more profitable platform than ICE for a variety of reasons. Less parts, and less warranty work are probably the biggest reasons for them to push electrics. Automatic transmissions are one of the most expensive, and delicate parts of an ICE vehicle. Just eliminating them from the majority of the vehicles they sell will save them money on production and warranty claims. For mainstream auto makers it's all about what they can build the most profitably. They sure haven't been dragged kicking and screaming into the EV future like they were when the first fuel economy and pollution standards came to be.

In the '70s and '80s Detroit produced crap. It didn't matter if it was a Corvette, or a Cadillac, they were all propelled by crappy engine control systems which didn't allow even big engines to make enough power. They were difficult to work on, and often had to be retrofitted with different technology to make them work correctly. Yet people still bought what was available to them, and the technology improved incrementally.

One technology drives another. Mandating fuel economy and emissions standards forced Detroit to develop amazing engine control systems which have brought us the likes of the Bugatti Veyron and Dodge Charger Hellcat. "They" said the muscle car era died in 1970. They couldn't have been more wrong.
Tech - both old and new is neutral. One would hope supply and demand drives the market forces. But politicians keep putting their thumb on the scale.
Only 5.9% of our electricity is derived from coal, 8.9% from natural gas, 1.3% from petroleum and 59.3% from hydroelectricity. I don't see any shortage here now or in the near future. How long that will last I don't know but we are the second largest exporter of electricity in the world.

Peter
Evergy's energy sources



Wind power is huge and growing here.
Putting that "Dust in the Wind" to work. Kansas and Missouri.
 






Ideal world thought, read me through before yelling at me.

Imagine, like a switch, all vehicles were converted to electric. All of em. With the power and range they actually need.
You'd get a home charging station provided depending on situation you use to store your vehicle. Solar charging capable.

And another switch is thrown putting fossil fueled, mfv all fuel generators installed at a proper ratio to surplus electricity. These would burn as clean as possible. Since there are now so many smaller decentralized power units the grid is more stable.

I wager, the oil usage nationwide would be cut in half. co 2 would go way down. Oil companies still sell oil but profits are higher because less is delivered, to far less places. Even if fuel price doubled, the impact would be way less.

I know it isn't possible to do that.

Or is it?
If I wanted and EV and a place to charge it, would have to get a fossil fueled generator to charge it. It's a rental, and the whole electrical system within would probably need an upgrade, or at least another 220 V source. EVs have been called in other places, a "remote pollution" vehicle. Where the electricity is generated, that's where the EV pollution is.
 






Yes, but they have never been this evil before. Today they are 50 times worse than when "we" were younger, we're over the tipping point of socialism now.

The government is currently responsible for the gas prices dropping by around $0.75 a gallon in the last 2-3 months, ... why would they do that?
Cause the economy usually dictates the election (in 2 yrs) and gas prices drive inflation?
 






@Turdle Try it yourself to test its cost, possibility, and convenience for one person, and now apply that cost and (in-) convenience to every person in the nation. Now, assume that the majority is a bunch of hard-heads who think the old way is better, so you have to convince them that your way is best, regardless of their bias. Now, overpower their bias without passing new laws, or raising taxes on the non-compliants, or offering monetary incentives to those who agree to comply. Physical possibility and better energy management are not the problems here - the real problems are the ones doing the pushing, and what else they're tying in with it.

I totally agree, your idea sounds great, the way you wrote it. The problem is that along with every word you wrote, there is an exploitation waiting to be used, that will inflict all manner of inconveniences, restrictions, and new or higher taxes by the ones who will be pushing it on us. We all know that theoretically, such a system is feasible, but we aren't so ignorant as to think the opportunity to shift to such a system wouldn't be exploited by the ones who have a consistent track record of exploiting everything possible to increase their own wealth, our beloved friends the politicians.

Good discussion in this thread, and it's true that the technology is constantly improving and shifting.

@Rick I understand that this forum aims to lower political friction by ignoring the subject, but the fact is that EV's and clean energy cannot be divorced from the politics that have married them. EV's, like every other piece of technology, have a great place in our society - just may be not on the public roads, may be not yet. A post you once made about the hardwired telephone in a prior thread about EV's comes to mind; the room-sized supercomputers boasting unbelievable megabytes of RAM for the first time come to mind. We now regularly use hand-held, wireless telephones with multi-core processors boasting many thousands of times more RAM, that can handle conference calls to several people around the globe, reliant upon a global system of networks, while simultaneously playing a video game (such as Fortnite) with 100 players around the globe on a separate system of networks, in less than 50 years of development - without encouragement or funding from the government.

If EV's and politics could be separated, I can see that the grid would open up to them on a nearly universal scale. Just like how E-mail replaced paper mail, cell phones replaced home phones, handheld calculators replaced clunky mechanical desktop units, and so many countless hundreds of other things have been superseded by newer options found to be more convenient and more affordable than their predecessors. All of this was founded upon the consumer market, and became the norm because the end consumers wanted to buy it because it was "better". The sustainability of a single item has never been a concern, except insofar as it costs, because the money goes to whoever sells the things that people want. If the battery-powered hand calculator is what people want, and the old desktop unit is going out of style, then in stead of making parts for the desktops, the companies will turn a profit by selling batteries for the handhelds. Shift in production and thus availability invariably comes with innovation in any given technology.

The Internet as a whole grew from Alexander Graham Bell's wonky telephone invention, and now allows end users, hackers, and governments to control our own, others, or targeted individuals' bank accounts, cars, home appliances, garage doors, security cameras, and basically everything else. Imagine how electric vehicles, allowed to flourish as the end users demand them, could advance beyond anything we can possibly dream of, within our own lifetimes.
Perfectly written and I agree 100%
 






Let's put it this way if more manufactures like GM Dodge and Ford would stop giving in to political pressure, we wouldn't be having this push to EVs with that said i believe in the next 10 years we will see more EVs but i would say in the next 2 years there will be more ICEs on the road than EVs
Currently EVs make up less than 2% of vehicles on the road. It will take 1-2 decades before EVs are the majority of vehicles on the road unless the government resorts to draconian measure to push the adoption of EVs artificially.
 


















I see. I'm in the greater Tennessee Valley area where electricity is abundant and cheap. Texas wishes that they could connect their grid to ours.
You paranoid 40 percenters need to get your tighty whiteys out of a wad and help the problem. Start by taking your foot out of the throttle and start using the brakes way sooner. There is no need to drive a 5000 pound vehicle, With just your lone self in it, on a 50 mile round trip to work and back with the AC on to go to your job and sit in the AC, just to do it all again tomorrow. Go purchase a hybrid. You will get 40 to 50 MPG average.
In due time, society, did you notice which word that I chose, will evolve towards cleaner, cheaper energy sources.
As far as EVs go, I still think that we have not seen the big jump in battery technology. When something is created that is light weight is when this whole EV thing will make its major jump forward. That is along with the fact that some parts of the U.S. will have to address their power, and pollution issues, like California is facing now. Not to mention the lack of water issue out west. And moving to the southeast is not the answer, LOL.
With current technology, I can convert a 2800 pound 5 seater to electric for about $20,000. I'm personally not ready to do that, but at that price I know that I eventually will.
And for those currently complaining about "they", and "they" want to control us, represent "your" people and run for local office. Vote in change that is good for "all" people. Then go on forward and run for a state office. Etc, etc.
Give a "hoot", don't pollute.
 






My wife and I work from home so we do our part in keeping fuel use to a minimum. As for moving to cleaner and cheaper energy sources you left out a critical word which is plentiful. Also, telling us to "go purchase a hybrid" is easy for you to say and impossible for most people to do. This is like telling people to go purchase an EV. Also, the EV itself is just one component of the problem of adopting them en mass. The real problems are charging time, electrical grid improvements and especially massively increasing electrical generation capacity. We could have the perfect EV right now and it still wouldn't make adopting them en mass viable.

As for voting in good people, we are currently in a situation where we are governed by unelected people embedded deep into government at all levels. Solving this problem is orders of magnitude greater than solving the EV problems.
 






old vw's and Hondas from the 70's and 80s already got the 40-50 mpg.......... not sure why it takes a hybrid!!
Had an old CRX got 42 mpg in 1987
94 geo metro was 46mpg
86 chevy sprint 48 mpg


California represents like 12% of the entire car market for new cars, so you can see why automakers are so quick to conform to their "demands"
 






old vw's and Hondas from the 70's and 80s already got the 40-50 mpg.......... not sure why it takes a hybrid!!
Had an old CRX got 42 mpg in 1987
94 geo metro was 46mpg
86 chevy sprint 48 mpg


California represents like 12% of the entire car market for new cars, so you can see why automakers are so quick to conform to their "demands"
Yep, that's the issue it's not about EVs it's about control and getting their way crap I drive a 2010 Accord i4 sometimes and it gets around 30-35 MPG with normal driving so in reality there isn't a huge difference for me also my X gets around 20 MPG with normal driving which is fine for me that's another reason I'm not interested in an EV mainly because I don't need it and because I don't see the point in spending 40 to 60k on a vehicle that I do not like or enjoy also gas prices where I live are 2.94 right now so it's not bothering me at all to go and fill up once a week
 






My wife and I work from home so we do our part in keeping fuel use to a minimum. As for moving to cleaner and cheaper energy sources you left out a critical word which is plentiful. Also, telling us to "go purchase a hybrid" is easy for you to say and impossible for most people to do. This is like telling people to go purchase an EV. Also, the EV itself is just one component of the problem of adopting them en mass. The real problem is charging time, electrical grid improvements and especially massively increasing electrical generation capacity. We could have the perfect EV right now and it still wouldn't make adopting them en mass viable.

As for voting in good people, we are currently in a situation where we are governed by unelected people embedded deep into government at all levels. Solving this problem is orders of magnitude greater than solving the EV problems.
Yep, another reason why I am in between on both sides because there is crap in either side and sadly people with deep pockets always gets their way
 



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I see. I'm in the greater Tennessee Valley area where electricity is abundant and cheap. Texas wishes that they could connect their grid to ours.
You paranoid 40 percenters need to get your tighty whiteys out of a wad and help the problem. Start by taking your foot out of the throttle and start using the brakes way sooner. There is no need to drive a 5000 pound vehicle, With just your lone self in it, on a 50 mile round trip to work and back with the AC on to go to your job and sit in the AC, just to do it all again tomorrow. Go purchase a hybrid. You will get 40 to 50 MPG average.
In due time, society, did you notice which word that I chose, will evolve towards cleaner, cheaper energy sources.
As far as EVs go, I still think that we have not seen the big jump in battery technology. When something is created that is light weight is when this whole EV thing will make its major jump forward. That is along with the fact that some parts of the U.S. will have to address their power, and pollution issues, like California is facing now. Not to mention the lack of water issue out west. And moving to the southeast is not the answer, LOL.
With current technology, I can convert a 2800 pound 5 seater to electric for about $20,000. I'm personally not ready to do that, but at that price I know that I eventually will.
And for those currently complaining about "they", and "they" want to control us, represent "your" people and run for local office. Vote in change that is good for "all" people. Then go on forward and run for a state office. Etc, etc.
Give a "hoot", don't pollute.
Here's the issue not everyone has the money for a hybrid or EV I know I don't also if we are talking about pollution and climate change who really believes that the record cold or record heat is an issue as we have had records like this back 100 years or so ago where they were talking about extreme heat or extreme cold I believe it's a cycle that earth goes through and not so much climate change also i for one am not paranoid at all i should be able to drive my vehicle how, where, and when, I want without anyone telling me how to do so if i want to burn my tires off it should be my choice as I paid for the vehicle and tires or if I want to run WOT I should be able to because it's my vehicle and i paid for it also this is a free country we should have the right to have a choice of what we drive instead of being told what to drive that is the biggest issue with our country today is everyone wants to tell us what to do
 






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