Jefe's SAS

Everyone else has a SAS thread in here, so I figured that instead of being jealous, I'd just start my own

I've been planning this for a few months now, and the parts are now starting to collect.

The plan is to buy a TJ D30 front axle to use for sizing and testing purposes, and replace it with a custom HP D44 with a bunch of goodies as the project nears completion.

I will be using Rubicon Express TJ long arms. These are 36" long, and convert the TJ 4 link to a radius arm design. 36" back from the front axle lands the rear mounts right where the torsion bar currently mounts, and the TJ and Ex frame are the same width at that location, so it should make for a great bracket location.

I plan to run 2" remote res. coilovers. I won't decide how much travel they need until I've got the axle temp'd under and see amount of flex, ride height, etc. No point in shoving a 14" travel C/O WAY up into the engine bay if its not going to do me any more good than a 10" or a 12".

I will convert the steering pump and gearbox over to a 1st gen explorer setup. I am hoping that the TJ track bar and steering will work, but will have that custom made if it doesn't.

I'm hoping for about 6" of lift, but may have to settle for more depending on a few things. I'll do a SOA conversion in the rear, along with custom leaves to match front ride height. I will be taking out the 3" BL as one of the first steps.

I plan to start actual work on the project about halfway into April.

 

[NOTAJP]

Really? They sure look heavier duty.

 

[mx_racer_14]

Just a few questions.

Hey Jefe, I saw you used 14" travel shocks, but looking for shocks as I start my own project I found no price difference in the 14" and 17" coil over bilstein's, so was wondering if you didn't go with 17" cause you thought that would be to much? I can see you have tons of travel, so I may stick with a 14" cause I don't think I'll need much more than that.
Also...
How long were the springs you used?
You used dual springs correct?
Do you know what your final dampening was?
Did you consider using a AGR box for a jeep and keeping all the stock jeep steering linkage?
Does anyone know if the stock pump will work with an AGR box with or without changing the valve that you changed on yours?

Sorry for all the questions, but I can't afford much down time when I start the cutting portion of the project, So I'm trying to prepare myself best I can, and collect all the parts and info I'll need.

 

[Jefe]

I actually was going to go with 17" shocks, but did some calculations as to my flex with 14"s and decided that 30" of flex was probably good for now. The guy I bought my shocks from completely talked me out of the 17"s since I was a crawler. Don't remember his reasoning though. If you went with 17"s though you would have to mount the shock even higher in the engine bay, in order to get the up-travel all the way to the frame, and you would probably want more lift to be able to use all that downtravel, and equalize your up vs down travel. Springs are 14" length. Dual rate. I think I ended up with 250/300 but that should be mentioned earlier in this thread. I do not know what dampening shims I have in now. I bought the shocks, wanted them stiffer, so the guy sent me another set of shims that he custom stacked for me.

As for steering. The stock Jeep steering box mounts differently. On the Jeep it is under the radiator, with the pitman arm pointed back. On the explorer it would end up IN the radiator. That one wasn't a hard decision I was able to use the Jeep inverted T steering linkage when I had the D30 underneath. It was all the right length. The tie rod ends and the pitman arm are different tapers though, so you'd have to play with other upper TRE's to find one that fits. I had started that search, but when I picked up the D44 they told me the stock TJ steering wouldn't work anyway, so I went custom.

 

[Jefe]

Update #2

So its been over a year now. . .

No other major breakage. Some minor: 1 1/2" steering bolt. I had a spare. I really should modify the pitman arm and high steer arm so its a double sheer mount, but its worked well so far. 1 Warn Hub, while testing to see if my Locker was working (on asphalt )

I Love the Elec-trac until I go to lock it and need the locker Trac-tech says its the gear oil I used (used to be synthetic) but I have switched to their recommendation and it will lock until I REALLY need it, and then it lets go, which becomes dangerous on a steep climb.

Other modifications. I finally fixed the upper control arm mount that I ripped off the axle over a year ago. As a trail fix I welded it as-is, so the bracket was not in the correct location. I've cut it off, boxed it in w/ 3/16" all around and welded it back to the axle (see attached pic). This has helped with reducing my caster even furter, further reducing my "death wobble". It is now ONLY a problem at 55 mph, and I have plans to continue to improve it.

I'm still planing on a Currie anti-rock or similar. I'm also looking at redoing the control arm brackets. so they are tucked up higher, though I haven't had a problem with them as is, but it will help reduce caster even further. I also want to move the track bar up 4" to match the angle/position of the "new" high steer angles. (of course all of this has been planned for over a year, so we'll see when I actuall get to it)

 

[410Fortune]

So basically the Ectrac is useless? stick with ARB or Detroit?

looking good Jefe, you do all your welding with that breifcase setup or do you have a MIG w/gas at home?

 

[Jefe]

So basically the Ectrac is useless? stick with ARB or Detroit?

looking good Jefe, you do all your welding with that breifcase setup or do you have a MIG w/gas at home?

I will continue to play with the Electrac, as I like the unlocked geared L/S. Even out at Truckhaven in soft stuff I only have to lock it up when I'm doing something crazy like CJ hill. I will never switch to an ARB. I think my locker works more often than most ARB's I've seen on the trail If I give up on the Electrac it will be a Detroit. Put it in and forget about it.

I have a Lincoln SP-135T 120V MIG Welder at home. My Rig (and Johns) have been built with that thing. Still using Flux-core, though I really should add a tank to make it MIG.

 

[410Fortune]

You know everbody says that but I have never really seen any mojor problems with the ARB other then poor wiring or leaks in the air line, can be avoided if you install it properly. I hear of them blowing up, but have never seen one.....

With all this snow/ice we get here a non selectable locker would be a death trap......open diff up front in the snow is the only way to go (on the street anyways)

 

[BKennedy]

I know Tom Davis's ARB exploded, and Paul B's rear ARB blew. I have his old front ARB in my truck and neither one of us has had a problem with it for several years now.

It doesn't get used very often and I don't do crazy stuff like CJ hill..........

 

[mx_racer_14]

My friend has the spider gears welded in his cherokee and uses the axle disconnect to lock/unlock the front. It worked great in the snow with the rear open cause he didn't have any air for his locker at the time. It's good to see that your project turned out ok, we're starting my truck right now. we are making our arms out of 1/4" thick dom tubing and using super flex joints at each end. basically the same design as the RE Long Arm. It will all be adjustable so hopefully I can get rid of the death wobble on mine if it comes up like it did on yours. we were gonna try to go 3 link, but there just isn't enough room under the engine, unless we can design something really cool to get around everything. Thanks for having such a thourough thread, it's gonna help me out a ton!

 

[IZwack]

Jefe >>

About your long arms :

The frame-mount end uses the Rubic. Exp. Large Flex joint correct? If so, it is using a 9/16 inch bolt correct? Have you ever bent/severed this bolt?

Thanks!!

 

[Jefe]

Jefe >>

About your long arms :

The frame-mount end uses the Rubic. Exp. Large Flex joint correct? If so, it is using a 9/16 inch bolt correct? Have you ever bent/severed this bolt?

Thanks!!

That is correct, and I haven't had a problem with any of the rubicon express hardware.

 

[IZwack]

Great thanks Jefe!

 

[SkanlaxJMO]

looks sweet Jefe. Great looking rig

 

[Jefe]

Update #3

A bit past two years now , here is an update:

06-2005
I blew a x760 U-joint up at Big Bear

07-2005
I installed Superior Chro-moly axle shafts and CTM U-joints to fix my U-joint break.

07-2005
More problems with the Elec-trac:
Even with the correct gear oil I was having a problem with the electrac not locking, and sometimes staying locked when it should unlock. After quite a few runs like that I pulled the cover to put in the new axles I found a broken shift fork. Got a new one and they decided to redesign it:

The one on top is the busted one, which is cast. The new one is waterjet cut, milled and heat treated, and the prongs extent further so that you can actually see it slide into the ring while putting on the cover.

Got that fixed and it worked well for the Rubicon.

11-2005
I busted a Superior axle on Thanksgiving weekend running Miller Jeep Trail.

I think the U-joint bound up as the steering stop was not setup correctly.
The rest of the axle was a pain to get out as it lodged itself into the carrier. Details here: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146025

02-2006
The Elec-trac started to give me trouble again on the Truckhaven 2006 run.
Acted like a broken shift fork again. I was getting ready for the TDS run and decided I should check my locker. Lifted a wheel to test it. It would alternate between locked and unlocked multiple times per rotation. I would 'bounce' the tire and it'd unlock again and I'd continue rotating. I knew it was bad when I got to a point where I could turn a wheel without the other wheel or driveshaft turning. I popped the cover and it looked like I had put a few pounds of metal in a blender. There are hundreds of little teeth in the bottom of the diff, and the helical gears for the L/S portion are stripped nearly bare. Not sure if it was contamination from the axle break that did it in, or just too much abuse.

I will continue to play with the Electrac, as I like the unlocked geared L/S. Even out at Truckhaven in soft stuff I only have to lock it up when I'm doing something crazy like CJ hill. I will never switch to an ARB. I think my locker works more often than most ARB's I've seen on the trail If I give up on the Electrac it will be a Detroit. Put it in and forget about it.

I shall now eat my words as I just ordered an ARB for the front.
Its the only selectable locker that has been around long enough to prove itself. I looked at the OX (not much of a following), E-locker (just recalled all D44s), and ECTED (wearable clutches).

 

[410Fortune]

Ouch!!!!

ARB still has the market

 

[Stic-o]

can you order replacement gears for the electrac? or is it just a big paperweight at this point?

 

[nissanboy]

IDK about ARB being so reliable. Lots of jeepers ont eh jeep boards are having issues with ARB equipped axles blowing gear oil out the breather tube lines.

 

[Rick]

Forgot about the steering break on the Martinez Canyon run

I've had excellent luck with my ARB for the D-44. Knock on wood, no problems in the past 5 or 6 years.

 

[Jefe]

Forgot about the steering break on the Martinez Canyon run

I've had excellent luck with my ARB for the D-44. Knock on wood, no problems in the past 5 or 6 years.

I talked about it in a previous update, post 269

 

[tdavis]

The problem with lockers, is almost no matter what you do, there is a problem.

The Lunchbox (Easy Locker, Lockrite, AussieLocker) style lockers easily shatter when shafts let go; they are also locked all them time, therefor working against you when trying to turn if installed in a front end.

A Full Case Detroit locker is better than the lunchbox style lockers, but still suffers from the same problems as a the lunchbox lockers.

ARB's can leak, but usually that is a problem caused by a bad install (ie, o-rings installed wrong, location of the airline badly picked) They do however easily survive when a shaft breaks. They are selectable.

The rest of the lockers - well, OX is basically dead; the others are unproven or have just as many problems.

I have had 3 ARB's, and only problems with one - that was in a d35 in the Navajo. My D44 ARB was trouble free, and is still trouble free in DiffWhackDaddy's Explorer for over 4 years now. The zuk has an ARB in the front, and it need only a new crossshaft pin when I got it, and has been trouble free for over 3+ years.

Personally, I think Jefe made the right choice.