The Black Hole

[gmanpaint]

Ok, the ABS has to go the way of the dinosaur for the SAS anyways, so might as well get a head start on it now. I need to re-plumb the lines after the removal, and just need to figure out the best way to go about it. Need to find the proportioning valve on it. It's hiding somewhere...lol

 

[crazyflights]

Start over LOL --------------jk

 

[CDW6212R]

Can't you use a front axle that has ABS sensors? I'd avoid changing the brake bias, which is built into the ABS module. If you remove it, then you have to add a proportioning valve for a four wheel disc truck. If need be, just leave out the front ABS sensor wires, and remove the ABS light bulb. With an ABS error, the brakes are just like normal non ABS cars.

 

[GRNMACHINE]

Can't you use a front axle that has ABS sensors? I'd avoid changing the brake bias, which is built into the ABS module. If you remove it, then you have to add a proportioning valve for a four wheel disc truck. If need be, just leave out the front ABS sensor wires, and remove the ABS light bulb. With an ABS error, the brakes are just like normal non ABS cars.

That sure sounds a Whole Lot Easier!!!!

Been reading about these brake woes you are having, couldnt add anything useful to help. Problem is insane, good luck with it.

 

[techieman33]

Can't you use a front axle that has ABS sensors? I'd avoid changing the brake bias, which is built into the ABS module. If you remove it, then you have to add a proportioning valve for a four wheel disc truck. If need be, just leave out the front ABS sensor wires, and remove the ABS light bulb. With an ABS error, the brakes are just like normal non ABS cars.

The only available Dana 44 with ABS is from a late model Jeep Rubicon, and they're very expensive and it takes a ton of work to make it work.

 

[IZwack]

Ok, the ABS has to go the way of the dinosaur for the SAS anyways, so might as well get a head start on it now. I need to re-plumb the lines after the removal, and just need to figure out the best way to go about it. Need to find the proportioning valve on it. It's hiding somewhere...lol

Read over my SAS thread - I bypassed the ABS modulator and went straight to the master cylinder (MC). The only thing you'll find weird is the size of the fittings that goes to the MC, they are oversized so unless you find replacements, you'll have to reuse the old ones. As for the proportioning valve, just get an aftermarket one from Summit or something - you only need this valve for the line that goes to the rear (since its the rear that you need to limit pressure to). Oh and I think you'll also need a "T" fitting because theres only one line coming from the MC for the front brakes - as far as i can remember, the modulator was the one that split that single line into two so without the modulator, you'll need a "T" to go to each caliper at the front.

 

[turboexplorer]

Sorry I havent posted what I found. I will tomorrow, but in short what I did find is there is a specific tool that you have to use that clips into the ABS module and you can activate solenoids etc that allows you to bleed the air out of the module. They say if you dont have it it is possible to get air trapped in there and it will not come out until you use that tool to activate the module. Ford can do it. You disconnect the truck harness from it then plug the electronic tool in and go from there. It says after that you bleed the brakes normally.

I fully agree with CDW6212R leave the module. You will need it for your speedo anyways. And when it doesnt sense any front wheel movement from not having the ABS sensors it will turn on ABS light and set a ABS code. It wount matter since it defaults to normall none ABS brakes anyways. Take light bulb out because it will be annoying and the biggest thing is it will keep the metering valve in the ABS module and the bias will be what you want for 4 wheel disc.

Also a few thoughts in my head is dont the early 90's TTB trucks run the same disc/hub/spindle set ups as the solid axles? If so why cant we use newer discs that have the reluctor wheel on it and build a bracket to hold an ABS sensor? Module should be able to learn an compensate for any slight difference in speed vs rear if reluctor is a diff size. Im still looking into it but its a thought!

 

[IZwack]

I fully agree with CDW6212R leave the module. You will need it for your speedo anyways.

as far as I can remember, you only need the electronics part. Below is the modulator divided into its three main components, the motor, the hydraulic valves (where the brake lines would connect to) and the electronics. I only kept the electronics part plugged in and discarded the other two. Speedo still worked (drove it to the trails a few hours away and speedo still worked)

 

[gmanpaint]

Being that this rig is OBDI, does the ABS still have the same electronic(s) (ie...modulator, etc..) functions as the OBDII?

I hear of others just removing the ABS completely when doing the SAS, in 1st gens, and now know of 2 members(Iz being 1) that did it successfully in a 2nd gen OBDII.

I am just trying to simplify the brakes in this rig. I do not like ABS, I Don't want ABS in this rig for trails. If it is not needed, I can do with out it.

The axle I have is the one I am using. I'm not going to get a different axle just for crappy ABS. Don't get me wrong, ABS has it's function, and use on a street rig, but this thing is getting closer to becoming a trailer queen for the trails only.

Thanks for the input guys. keep it coming please.

 

[CDW6212R]

The brake bias between front and rear is critical, for any vehicle or usage.

The bias is built into the ABS modules/units/components of almost all modern ABS vehicles. If you don't alter the bias needed by changing brake sizes radically front or rear, keep the existing ABS hydraulic system.

You do not want to mess with adding a proportioning valve from another vehicle, mainly because you will be trying to match the two brake systems(vehicle weight and brake size front and rear).

Your existing stock brakes have the proper brake bias built in, don't remove that just to cut one small part out. Remove only the ABS dash light bulb, throw away the front ABS sensors if you wish.

The only downside is the bleeding issue, with the ABS module you must not let too much air get back in the lines. Simply don't let the brake lines be exposed to the air long enough to drip out too much fluid. Air gets back up in the lines, if it gets into the ABS module, then you have to have the special diagnostic tool to manually activate the ABS hydraulics, while bleeding. I'd rather deal with that than to mess with a new proportioning valve.

 

[IZwack]

Fwiw, ABS becomes more and more innefective as the tire diameter increasess and the pressures go down.

 

[Turdle]

Can you even do a front Dig with abs?

You know you want to do front digs,

 

[gmanpaint]

Thanks for the input Don. I know about the special electronic device that jacks in the OBD port to bleed the ABS. I always disconnect the sensor on one side when going out on the trails to turn off the pump, and the light really don't bother me.

I am having pedal to the floor issues................sigh

I have been thinking that ABS might be my problem, and not 3 masters in a row, so I want it gone, completely. If it turns out to be the master is bad, so be it. It's not going to hurt my feelings one bit if the ABS wasn't to blame, and it was removed for nothing.

Iz, I believe you about the tire size. These tires are twice as big as stock tires, and weigh a crap ton more. The inertia that these things throw around are crazy compared to stocker's. If I go any bigger than these meats, I will have to do a brake size upgrade, as I believe they are maxed out right now.

Jon, your just awesome man! I miss ya buddy!

 

[CDW6212R]

If you have to remove the ABS(install a new proportioning valve), I'd follow the example of pre-94 Mustang guys who upgrade their brakes. They commonly add rear discs and even the bigger front brakes, and then have to alter their PV.

You would need something very similar to what they end up with, so try the combination/proportioning valve that they put together. That should be close for your truck.

 

[IZwack]

Iz, I believe you about the tire size. These tires are twice as big as stock tires, and weigh a crap ton more. The inertia that these things throw around are crazy compared to stocker's. If I go any bigger than these meats, I will have to do a brake size upgrade, as I believe they are maxed out right now.

Or you can throw on a bigger brake booster, or go with a hydraulic brake booster, or go withh a simple small vacuum pump that's used on diesel trucks (since diesels don't operate by a throttle valve, they don't have enough vacuum on the intake and thefefore must use a pump)

 

[crazyflights]

I think when ABS is removed, this will go away.. I ran 37s on my 97 ABS bypassed -no issues.

 

[gmanpaint]

Ok, with all that said...Mission ABS delete will be under way soon.

New front lines, and an adjustable prop valve is all it should take to bypass it as far as I can tell. No electronics to worry about on this system (i think) (crosses fingers)

 

[crazyflights]

Cant wait for you to get her sasd we, will have some fun!!! Hitting levels 3-5s

 

[gmanpaint]

Yeah me too Brad. Wont be until Spring sometime, as work slows for a few months over the winter. Can only get a part at a time as funds allows.

I have been researching parts to get, and whatnot, but still don't have it all figured out yet. My biggest issues I have (figuring out) is all the dimensions and placements (hates math) of all the steering components.

 

[Gabe96Explorer]

You & Me both.. I HATTEE MATH. ahah.