Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[Dono]

With watching 4pointslow perform his mods, and my truck running good (Motor's still in, so that has to be a good thing), my thoughts have moved to improving performance.

I just ordered 2.5" aluminum piping so I can take out that 2" crush exhaust piping I'm using for my intake side from the turbo. I was concerned about volume (I kept the pipe small, so boost would come on faster), but crush bent 2" exhaust pipe just has to be too small (and turbulent). At some point, I'll even see if the 2" non crush bent around the wheel well can be changed to 2 1/2" (If there are no negative results of moving the original crush bent 2" pipe to mandrel bent 2.5".

Remember, all the piping from the rear of the truck forward actually sees boost, so I'm playing with different rules than you SC guys. I just don't know exactly what those rules are yet.

As a update on timing, I still can't get much timing in this motor under any kind of boost at all. I'm starting to wonder if the timing pointer is off on my harmonic balancer or the 0 degree notch is off. That would mean the crank sensor 'distributor' is timed a few degree's out. I wonder if I really do have lots of timing advance, but just don't know it. The only way to find out would be to fund true tdc (Piston stop in the spark plug hole) and a degree wheel. Not fun with the motor still in the truck with rad and full front dress.

 

[CDW6212R]

There is also oval exhaust pipe you can get. I've seen it for ages in the 2 3/4" size and up, it may be made at 2.5" also. I don't know if it can be had with any bends though.

For the finishing touches tuning, I think checking the TDC is a very smart idea. If it indicates it's far from expected, the balancer is a decent probability.

 

[2000StreetRod]

You might try finding TDC with a manometer: SOHC V6 Timing Chain Saga

 

[4pointslow]

Dono, what's your WOT timing at?
In tune?
And with the base 10 added?
Fuel is 92 octane right?

 

[Dono]

Genius!
Then I could mark my balancer on both sides of when the oil starts/stops moving and split the difference. I'm sure your right that it would be very easy to do.

What an awesome idea. I'm not sure how I missed this. I was sure I had subscribed to your thread.

 

[Dono]

91 octane. Base 10 is not added.
Wot timing is 10 right now (10 in the timing table, so I think that means 20 total) with 4lbs boost. And that's still triggering the J&S unit.

I'm hoping that taking care of those crush bends lower inlet air temps more (Although there is no issue with inlet air temps in this cold, lol). Also, I have been reviewing how you mounted your w/m pump in your thread and have not successfully seen how to do it and keep the pump out of the way of the inner wheel well plastic. I think spraying w/m early in boost will help with detonation also.

 

[4pointslow]

How did you set the sensitivity on the J&S unit?
Did you get your intercooler system working?
What degree thermostat are you using?
What are your intake air temps looking like?
Sorry for all the questions, my curiosity is flaring today.

With 91 octane I guess that really limits things.
With 93 I am at 12 + 10 base so 22, but that was with 20lbs of boost and water methanol injection.
Don't know how exactly that compares....

 

[Dono]

How did you set the sensitivity on the J&S unit? I set it by the instructions given (vacuum port off, cruising on the highway at steady speed), and actually turned the sensitivity down a bit from there.

Did you get your intercooler system working? YES

What degree thermostat are you using? 192 degrees. Come spring, I'll drop in a 180

What are your intake air temps looking like? In the heat of summer they were up to about 170 with 8 lbs boost.

With 91 octane I guess that really limits things. 91 is as good as it gets here. Back to needing that w/m kit working.

With 93 I am at 12 + 10 base so 22, but that was with 20lbs of boost and water methanol injection.
Don't know how exactly that compares....
My motor would hydro-lock and bend/bust **** up again trying what you are doing. lol

 

[CDW6212R]

A turbo system is relatively very easy on parts, given the right tuning of course. Hopefully you get the timing and turbo plumbing worked out well. Then it should produce 10psi or more very easily, and start pushing the limits of the drivetrain etc. I know you have been worried about hurting things due to the several issues, but when it's right it'll make big power and torque. That's what I was wanting until I decided I didn't like the confines of the bay to run a turbo or piping. You are very close I think, keep tweaking on the tuning stuff.

 

[Dono]

The truck pulls hard, and boost comes on fast. I have the boost controller backed off taking out boost until I sort out the timing/detonation thing. Also, its winter and I have winter tires on. I can lay two black strips as long as I want, until I get nervous at the attention I am getting and let off the gas. lol. It is winter, and a lack of traction can easily get me in trouble. For winter I don't need lots of boost, but the boost there is comes on early and provides lots of torque.
As you said Don, I'll keep plugging away as time permits. I'd like to get back to 8-10lbs boost for summer with more (Or is that less? lol ) timing than I have now. Then I'm done as I know I'm in block splitting range.

 

[jd4242]

I was at 21* on e50 and 16* on 93 @12lbs on my 11:1 motor.. if it means anything ..lol

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, and with the tuning right, the block should survive better. I was aiming at a turbo for my Lincoln, but learning how much power I'd be at with the 347 made me rethink that. 2WD is not the best for big power in a twitchy luxury car. I wrecked my first LSC with just heads/intake/exhaust in it, the shift kit was too harsh going into 3rd. I want only one 4WD/AWD truck to get some boost, hopefully keep it in a straight line on the gas.

 

[Dono]

Thanks guys, I really don't know why I seem to have to kill so much power with timing. My 4.0 ohv motor was the same. That one didn't have an intercooler, so I understood why. This one, not so much.

I think I need to use streetrod2000's TDC finder and see if my cam position sensor is aligned properly.

 

[4pointslow]

You said your intake air temps were 170, what about after the intercooler installation?
Maybe you could try to run the intercooler pump all the time instead of just at WOT, as a test to see what happens?

 

[Dono]

I'm not sure yet.
I think getting the 2" crush pipe out of inlet tubing will help iat's.
I logged a wot run on friday. 86 degree's (Ambient looks like 48 degree's).
Boost seemed to be 6lbs. That explains the low temps.

Fueling seemed to be around 12.4, so I richened things up to 11.6 in higher load area's.
I'm also still working with the borderline knock table. At peak load, It was setting its self off at .2volts (very little knock). I think this is acceptable as long as I don't have a module failure of some kind (probably my own wiring if anything were to fail, lol). Me, being greedy, am also working with upping spark in areas with no knock to find where the J&S unit lights off, and then back off the timing at that rpm and load.
I'm hoping that once I have the knock table set for max allowed spark before detonation starts at higher load and rpm levels, I will be able to just highlight the higher areas of rpm/load in the borderline knock table and raise or lower it in one easy swoop when iat's/meth injection change things.

I did receive a bunch of 2.5" intake piping stuff from frozen boost, but they accidentally shipped 1 foot 2.5" pipes instead of the 2 foot I ordered. Figures, as this weekend was pretty free and the weather was warm(er) so the garage would be ok to work in. Frozenboost was very good about correcting the miss ship, and shipped the 2 foot pipes same day once I sent them a picture confirming the 1 foot pipes. The install just won't happen this weekend, unfortunately.

I spent more time on 4pointslows thread looking at how he mounted his w/m pump. The pictures are great. I'm going to steal his idea. No, I don't have a box of metal plates laying around, but we do have a discount metal place right by work that will probably have a waste piece that will work great.

Watching threads like 4pointslows is giving me some motivation to get moving. It just seems like part collection/planning is the biggest part. The intake piping should be easy as long as I dry underneath the truck (heat and a fan) so I don't get endlessly dripped on by snow melting (I hate that).

 

[4pointslow]

Good luck on the piping changes, I hope it turns out to be warm and dry for you.

 

[CDW6212R]

Ditto, working out in the rain, wind, or snow is not fun. I work in it, but at home I'd like to work inside if I can.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

what gauge of metal and how big don? i can look around work, or might have something kicking around

 

[Dono]

somewhere in the 5x7 inch range. 5x6 would work also.
As far as gauge. No clue. As long as its heavy enough that the pump won't bounce around. Really, only 2 of the pump mounts are hanging over the edge.

Here's where I'm shamelessly copying how 4pointslow mounted his pump for reference.
My 98 super charged EX

 

[vroomzoomboom]

nothing to be ashamed about. thats almost the same spot i did mine, but its hanging off the side of the fender apron behind the passengers headlight.