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Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Turbo compressor map.gif
Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.
 



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vroomzoomboom

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then if someone comes along that looks fast you could go to setting 2 which might be called leave you in the rear view mirror mode. lol

*cough*
 



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Dono

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lol
I think at 10 lbs boost you are in trouble, even with my soft starts off the line.

It's very strange, I keep cranking on the boost controller and the boost doesn't go up. I've checked, and re-checked my vacuum ports and they are fine. The boost controller worked on the other wate gate.

If all else fails, I have another .3 bar (4.3 lb) spring I can add to the waste gate. That will put me at just over 10 lbs boost. I don't want to go over that anyway. I'm certain I'd be in block splitting territory.
 






ahodges

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nahh.. it takes a lot to split a block, maybe not as much to blow a head gasket as you have found out. you need to be pushing 500 - 600 hp to split a block. Are you suggesting you are in that range?!
 






Dono

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I'm sure at 10lbs boost I'll be over 500 fly wheel hp.
Any dyno sheets I have seen of a 347 like ours (Aluminum heads, increased compression, big cam, boost...) is over 500rwhp at 10 lbs boost. I think we have a lot of drive train losses so I have no idea what rwhp will be. I might be able to go over 10 lbs boost, but I have to keep pushing timing closer to the 0 mark on 91 pump gas, and I wonder where the gains start to be minimal anyway.
As I get things fine tuned, I plan to strap the truck to a dyno to get a better idea whats happening.
I will say that every couple of pounds boost makes a huge difference.

Also, what is it with you guys posting at such odd hours? Between ahodges and 4pointslow, I wonder if its a per-requisite of this forum not to sleep.
 






CDW6212R

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The PCM tune and rpm's will have more to do with breaking a stock block usually. A bad tune can kill one at 400hp, or the tune and 7000rpm etc. You've got the rpm's plenty low I'm sure, so keep the timing and fuel safe, and it should be fine. That is, the weak pistons are a weaker link than the block given a good tune.
 






Dono

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You could be right. I agree on the high rpm's for sure.
This is my daily driver (Although with all the down time this could be disputed) and I would prefer to not ride the edge and actually be able to drive my Ex for a while.

Although there are lots of factors causing blocks to rip in two, one commonality is definitely high(er) horsepower, and 500hp seems to be a general consensus. The turbo comes on smoothly and there is no parasitic loss with no added belt on the front of the motor, but I know if I keep upping the boost I keep pushing closer to the 'go boom' (again) line.

Im shooting for around 10lbs boost, and stopping there.
 






4pointslow

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Also, what is it with you guys posting at such odd hours? Between ahodges and 4pointslow, I wonder if its a per-requisite of this forum not to sleep.

LOL
Was day shift for 3 weeks, up at 4:00 am.
I miss sleep, a lot.
 






CDW6212R

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The turbo is easier on the engine for sure. 8-10 psi is at the limit that most people push a stock 302, the pistons and head gaskets being the worry more than the block. But that was 20+ years ago before making 500hp was common. Now the block is the big deal, and it's not far past the rest of the parts for reliability. Ford never imagined a simple 302 making 2hp/ci.

I hope I can make a pulley guess to get a blower to hit 8psi and not over 10, to survive until a stronger engine can be built.
 












delexploder

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I have seen similar block braces , also my local ford engine guru taps all the freeze plug holes and uses pipe plugs , even the ones in the oil galleys , the ones in the block add rigidity the ones in the oil galleys are to hold up to the 80 psi oil pressure ,
 






CDW6212R

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Skip the braces, save that good money for a better shortblock.

The main girdles have been limited help, and the mains are where the block problem begins. Those upper block braces haven't proven to do anything. Only the sellers and advertisers say that they help.
 






ahodges

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Also, what is it with you guys posting at such odd hours? Between ahodges and 4pointslow, I wonder if its a per-requisite of this forum not to sleep.
LOL
Was day shift for 3 weeks, up at 4:00 am.
I miss sleep, a lot.

HAHA I'm usually at work by 6:30am (Eastern Time) and try to get on here first thing in the morning during the week.
 






Dono

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slightly spirited takeoff. Louder than I thought. Thanks for the video Tim!
lol
 












Dono

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I picked up my new alternator from Tims today. He also made me all kinds of cables to complete the big three wiring upgrade along with a couple of really nice battery post terminals. Tim warned me that the valve cover might interfere, and that I'd need to trim the positive on the alternator for the larger wire. No problemo.

I get home thru a heavy downpour of rain. Hot and humid, perfect.
I pull in to the garage, and in true EF passion, I pull in to the garage, change, pop the hood and get started.

I yard the old alternator out quickly (after disconnecting and removing the battery), but not before burning my arm on the radiator. Not to be held back by a little discomfort, I make a mental not not to do that again. Tim had mentioned that he found his valve cover was in the way as the new alternator is slightly larger, and that I'd need to trim the positive post on the alternator slightly to fit the new, larger positive wire to the alternator. Confirmed. Yup, and yup.

So, I look over at Mr. Grinder, and look at the space where the alternator will be sitting. Looks like the grinder will fit in there without skipping all over and trashing wiring and vac lines. I'm good to go. Mr. Grinder makes short work of a slight bit of valve cover that hangs over the seal to the head. Beautiful, I took just enough off. Lifes good. Then, I trim the positive lead a bit on the alternator and confirm the new connector fits. Done, and done.

Remember how I said I wasn't going to be held back by some discomfort in true EF form? Hot, humid? Mosquitoes? I'm getting agitated as I'm now starting the big 3 wire upgrade with the positive off the alternator to the power distribution box. All the while, I seem incapable of killing even one mosquito.

The original power wire take patience (Which I'm short of) to cut out of other wiring and wire loom without making more issues for myself. I keep reminding myself that this is a hobby, relax and enjoy, as that's why all us EF'ers are here...right?

I start fighting with the new, thicker positive wire trying to route it nicely. Now I'm really sweating, and this seems to just work the mosquitoes to more of a frenzy. To make matters worse, I still haven't killed even one.

I finally get the power wire routed nicely, re-install the air intake piping, and belt. I'm thinking EF this, Iv'e had enough. I'm busy cleaning up tools while swatting and scratching with nagging thoughts that I did upgrade the power wire, but have done absolutely nothing to complete a circuit by upgrading a negative. Before putting the battery in, I say to myself 'EF it', and I cut the negative battery terminal wire off with Mr. Grinder (Now with a cut off wheel on it), I'm now committed to the job. I then took a beautiful new battery terminal that Tim picked up for me and installed it along with the upgraded ground to rad support cable that Tim made for me.
EF this, the mosquitoes are not getting the best of me!
Tim's the best. If I was making my own cables and had to live a few of the other fitment issues, I truly would have lost it.

Battery is in, and its now all good. I guess I can say I only completed the big one. Or would that be the big one .2? That negative wire has to account for something, right?

I'm inside, and starting to feel much better. Tim mentioned that the negative cable from battery to block is easiest with the oil filter off. I'm due for an oil change soon, so I'll do that wire at the same time. The last wire, lower intake to firewall will have to wait till I can pull the upper off, or hopefully with a cold motor I can get to it.

There it is, I managed to replace my alternator and do the big one. Or is that 1.2?
 






4pointslow

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That video is awesome! The turbo whines real nice!
Congrats on the cable/alternator install.
Those damn mosquito's are vicious aren't they, I spray them with brake clean in between swatting at them.
 






CDW6212R

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Congrats, and be glad you aren't feeding the mosquitoes in Rio.
 






Dono

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lol, your right on the diseased mosquitoes. Your an eternal optimist.

Initial test on the alternator is that it does have a higher current capability at idle.

I also have my low voltage switch ready to install. I'll tap a wire off the tps and have the relay turn on the inter cooler pump at anything over about 1.5-2 volts. As long as the pump doesn't turn on at start/idle I'm sure it will help the low rpm current draw at least a bit.

I have not dug in to why my boost controller isn't controlling boost yet. I'll spend a few minutes trying to figure it out, and failing that I'll just add another spring to the waste gate.
 






vroomzoomboom

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its too bad the video quality of that video went to the crapper texting it to you, and then going onto youtube. i think that it got louder with the new turbo. after i turned it off i just started laughing. no wounder people raise their eyebrows at you and look twice lol. might have to pull my alt and shave a little off the valve cover. that wont happen today or tomorrow. you made fast work of the wiring, thats for sure. was everything long enough? or did you have to stretch the one wire i was talking about? were those new terminals easy to work with? once again, i am tempted to get a pair of those, they looked really nice
 



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Dono

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I completed 2 of the wires. One positive, and one negative. So, no, I haven't done the one you were wondering about.
The battery terminals were easy to work with (Although I have only done the negative so far). They seem to be quality pieces.
 






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