3800 M90 Build

Ok the cats out the bag!!im going supercharged .its a 3800 gm m90.i need lots of help as im a nos guy.for starters my list of mods is in my signature.the guy im buying it from ran it on a stock tuned motor at 3psi.first question is what is the "safe" limit to run boost at?i know it is not ideal but i have a wide band O2 and will be doing tuning very soon.i also will be trying to have my company make a new lower intake mounting bracket on the cnc machine and have it taped for nos/water meth injectors/spray bars.i will also be getting a p+p unit from 3800 performance and stepping down on the pulley to try and run 8-10psi.what size injectors should i run for that?which fuel pump should i run?any suggestions on tuning?i was going to go mega squirt but i see sct has a new chip out,any suggestions?


DONE
ported and polished gm 3800 gen 2 m90
Water to air intercooled
port matched 76mm inlet and intake tube
mustang 75mm race tb
90mm maf
36lb injectors
255 fuel pump
sct 5bank dyno tuned
2.7" pulley 10lbs of boost!!

dyno run,these was the last two pulls with the 2.7 and the alternator was bad.turn your volume down!!


and a 3.25 pull and think my rev is still set to 5000 in this one

 

[Ronin8002]

Yeah you'll just need to look at the charger to see if there is a port for your IAT on the intake side or the discharge side. If it doesn't have one it might come down to where you want to put it....you could put it on the manifold that the blower sits on or drill a hole in your pre-blower intake tube for it.

Yeah your W/M needs to be on a boost switch but you don't want it cutting on too early in the RPM range so you'll just have to start low and adjust it until you don't get any bogging or stumbling.

I have heard some accounts of W/M wearing the coating on the rotors but never got any confirmation if it was true. You got plenty of time to research it though. If it's just a problem of using methanol you can always just use straight water and that will also help cool things just not as well.

You know if you are really worried about it not being rich enough you could always buy an adjustable FMU (fuel management unit). Basically its an regulator that you hook up inline to your fuel pressure regulator. There is a vacuum hose that runs from it to your lower manifold and it will see either vac or boost. What it does is when you start to hit boost, it causes your fuel pressure to increase which richens the a/f. Some people use it instead of doing larger injectors. If you did it along with your bigger injectors it would probably help. You might be able to find one cheap. I know BBK used to include one in their Instacharger kits for the 4.0.

Hey James.im thinking that the air temp sensor is before my charger so i don't think it will be pulling timing out like it did yours.yours was after the charger right?i also been doing some research and this new unit should reach full boost at like 1200 rpms so think my w/m needs to be on a boost switch.also i read that w/m can wear the coating off the blades of the sc if you use it to much.so with me building boost so early i don't know how the w/m is going to work.i may have to just run a richer af and little less timing and run the wm off a wot switch,may look into running a fuel additive also.10psi seems to be the max safe limit for a stock bottom with 10:1.this may sound crazy but you think it would be possible to temporarily put a resistor on my ecm wire from my O2 to trick the computer into thinking its running a little lean so it richs it up a bit.i could see what it really is with my wide band tho,just till i can get it tuned?

 

[jd4242]

Yeah you'll just need to look at the charger to see if there is a port for your IAT on the intake side or the discharge side. If it doesn't have one it might come down to where you want to put it....you could put it on the manifold that the blower sits on or drill a hole in your pre-blower intake tube for it.

Yeah your W/M needs to be on a boost switch but you don't want it cutting on too early in the RPM range so you'll just have to start low and adjust it until you don't get any bogging or stumbling.

I have heard some accounts of W/M wearing the coating on the rotors but never got any confirmation if it was true. You got plenty of time to research it though. If it's just a problem of using methanol you can always just use straight water and that will also help cool things just not as well.

You know if you are really worried about it not being rich enough you could always buy an adjustable FMU (fuel management unit). Basically its an regulator that you hook up inline to your fuel pressure regulator. There is a vacuum hose that runs from it to your lower manifold and it will see either vac or boost. What it does is when you start to hit boost, it causes your fuel pressure to increase which richens the a/f. Some people use it instead of doing larger injectors. If you did it along with your bigger injectors it would probably help. You might be able to find one cheap. I know BBK used to include one in their Instacharger kits for the 4.0.

Aww wealth of knowledge charger will be here sat so ill see where the it plugs in at.i heard about fmu but never knew what they was,ill look into it.thanks man

 

[syn-]

Jd, what are you planning on running as a regulator for fuel pressure?

 

[jd4242]

Jd, what are you planning on running as a regulator for fuel pressure?

I assumed the stock one if it would fit.but if i used a fmu im sure it would be completely different.any suggestions?

 

[jd4242]

Also how does the vac tree work?wouldn't it cause crazy amounts of vac or crazy amounts of psi depending where the tree is at?how does that work out?

 

[phix-]

Well that is what you have to decide, with my setup there are 2 large vacuum fittings on the rear of the adapter plate for the throttle body. If not mistaken, you will need to re-plumb your charcoal canister on the driver side with new line to the throttle body (stock is prebent plastic). You have no egr so that solves quite a bit of vacuum trouble shooting. You might have to invest in a new tree and create your own main vacuum source.

As for the FPR, I use an aeromotive as they work well in a drift car I have and the motor for that is in for a rebuild so I pulled it. Please also note I had my fuel rail modified for to accept and block off the stock mounting. The theory behind it is, for every pound of boost there is a 10psi increase in line pressure. Mine is hooked up to the discharge side of my blower. Also, if your making a custom intake make sure you have the return line added for the crankcase. I have seen people just but breather filters, but if you put a catch can in between there you will be shocked after some WOT pulls how much carbon (what I call oil vapor) is dumped back in through the motor. Also, an air/oil separator between the PCV and main vaccum is good stuff too.

 

[jd4242]

How does a stock fpr work?does it stay open under idle let gas back to the tank,then as rpms increase or vac increases it starts to close causing more fuel pressure?what is stock fuel psi ?does the mustang 255 run the same psi as the 4.0 pump?i think the 255 runs 45 psi.

 

[jd4242]

Ok found my own answer
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142801

 

[jd4242]

Anyone know if the fuel line quick connectors in a 5.0 mustang the same as ours?i found a fmu i think i may wanna use
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/VOR-4FA238-088

 

[phix-]

I don't if they are the same but I will provide a link to Spdrcr who replaced his lines all together. Very clean.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223022&page=23
scroll down and you can see the attention to detail (in and out markings)

 

[rocket 5979]

Hey James.im thinking that the air temp sensor is before my charger so i don't think it will be pulling timing out like it did yours.yours was after the charger right?i also been doing some research and this new unit should reach full boost at like 1200 rpms so think my w/m needs to be on a boost switch.also i read that w/m can wear the coating off the blades of the sc if you use it to much.so with me building boost so early i don't know how the w/m is going to work.i may have to just run a richer af and little less timing and run the wm off a wot switch,may look into running a fuel additive also.10psi seems to be the max safe limit for a stock bottom with 10:1.this may sound crazy but you think it would be possible to temporarily put a resistor on my ecm wire from my O2 to trick the computer into thinking its running a little lean so it richs it up a bit.i could see what it really is with my wide band tho,just till i can get it tuned?

The IATS needs to be located post-blower. There is a reason why the ECM was pulling spark timing in the other guys build. The ECM NEEDS to see the actual IAT's making it into the engine.

I also suggest that you get a proper FULL recalibration via a flash tune from someone who specializes in tuning the EEC-IV computers. If this is done properly then your IATS being mounted post-blower will not only allow more safety for the engine when IAT's are higher in the summer months but also more power when IAT's drop down during cooler weather.

Has James Henson emailed you back about any of this yet?

 

[jd4242]

The IATS needs to be located post-blower. There is a reason why the ECM was pulling spark timing in the other guys build. The ECM NEEDS to see the actual IAT's making it into the engine.

I also suggest that you get a proper FULL recalibration via a flash tune from someone who specializes in tuning the EEC-IV computers. If this is done properly then your IATS being mounted post-blower will not only allow more safety for the engine when IAT's are higher in the summer months but also more power when IAT's drop down during cooler weather.

Has James Henson emailed you back about any of this yet?

Idk where the sensor is yet ,i have not received the blower yet.yes he has emailed me back and to say the least he is not interested in any kind of tuning of a first gen.he has been very little help.i have a tuner here that will be tuning this but in a first gen after the maf is tuned for the injectors there is very little they can even do without doing a whole ecm swap or stand alone.i should have gotten the unit today but it got stalled in pa so it won't be here till the 6,then i will know more.for now i have a game plan

 

[jd4242]

"Originally Posted by#jd4242Hey man im doing a supercharger on my 92 explorer and wondering if you could share some of your knowledge with me if you have time.also really need to help as far as what to do for a tune.thanks a lot

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=337305

Unfortunately on the 1992 I or the tuner would need to be with the vehicle to be able to tune. This is a OBD1 vehicle and the remote tuning isn't an option.-j
I knew that.but what type of tuning material should i buy?
SCT but you will need a datalogger and that is the issue with the obd1 vehicles. No-one sells them. I have a Sneec I use but I don't loan it out.-j"

this is not the first time i have emailed him about help and he has given me short non helpful answers .i understand he is caught up in easier ob2 tunes and nothing can be done remotely but some advise besides use sct would be nice.but that's ok guess my local tuner will get my business instead.

 

[Dono]

Here is whats required:
http://www.racesystems.com/sneeciv/sneec.htm#What does the SnEEC-IV cost?
$500.00 and not available right now.
Turns out they cant source a connector, and its been years.

Lots of guys looking for these.
Ebay came up cold on SnEEC-IV search. Im only finding 'wanted to purchase'.

Sorry buddy. It looks like James was being honest with you. He can't help remotely. I'm sure you are right, James needs to follow the money. As a small business owner, he needs to go where he can turn a profit and provide value without bleeding his customers to death.

I'm glad you did find someone locally that can help. Sounds like local is by far the best route.

These issues (frustrations) are all part of the build you are doing. The results are going to be amazing. Keep going, and please post where things are pissing you off. We are all learning from you.

Your box of goodies show up?

 

[jd4242]

No they are stuck in pa.they changed the date to the 6!! i knew this truck can't be tuned unless in person from the start.but was winding witch type of tuning device i should use and was trying to purchase it from him not my tuner .i was wonder if the sct eliminator 4bank chip would work but guess it will as that's what the other guy is running.any word on those spacers yet?wanna do the rockers and spacers at the same time.

 

[Dono]

No new word, sorry.
I know, what you mean.

To stop my oil leak on my valve cover, I had to goop the crap out of the rear gasket area with ultra black. Im not taking that apart unless I have to. I just might have a set of spacers that never make it on my motor.

I'll send a followup pm early next week and see if he has had a chance to get to them yet.

I understand completely why you are unhappy about the lack of info that came in from HensonPerformance. I hope my experience goes better.

 

[rocket 5979]

"Originally Posted by#jd4242Hey man im doing a supercharger on my 92 explorer and wondering if you could share some of your knowledge with me if you have time.also really need to help as far as what to do for a tune.thanks a lot

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=337305

Unfortunately on the 1992 I or the tuner would need to be with the vehicle to be able to tune. This is a OBD1 vehicle and the remote tuning isn't an option.-j
I knew that.but what type of tuning material should i buy?
SCT but you will need a datalogger and that is the issue with the obd1 vehicles. No-one sells them. I have a Sneec I use but I don't loan it out.-j"

this is not the first time i have emailed him about help and he has given me short non helpful answers .i understand he is caught up in easier ob2 tunes and nothing can be done but some advise besides use sct would be nice.but that's ok guess my local tuner will get my business instead.

As another person who also custom tunes ECU's I can tell you that sometimes there is very little option with things. This is very much the case with the OBD-I stuff. James and I have been close friends for a very long time and I will vouch that if he can help then he will. But if he cannot then he will not beat around the bush and try to bullshit you like many other tuners will do just to get their foot in the door to get your money. However, since your sensors need to be datalogged in a way that requires a different sort of direct connection type of datalogging setup then it becomes MUCH MUCH harder to remote tune. Datalogging equipment is not cheap and loaning it out isn't really an option unless it isn't being used much and it is a favor for a friend. What else did you want James to answer or do for you since he isn't really supporting remote tuning OBD-I with his business? It isn't like he can personally take the time to walk you through your build or the tuning of it. We are enthusiasts here and tend to give out allot of free advice in our personal time, but you cannot EXPECT that we should feel obligated to do so.

The bottom line is that since you have OBD-I you or your tuner will need two separate things; instead of one like the OBD-II+ guys with the Xcal units. A datalogger, and some way to tune the ECU. The datalogger you have a few options with such as Zeitronix (mixed reviews), Sneec, and others I am sure are out there. And then the chip itself which I recommend SCT Eliminator because it is the best Ford tuning chip on the market in mine and many others opinions. Some of this information I am sure you already know. If I were you I would make sure you know exactly what datalogger your local tuner plans to use and know the capabilities of it. With any sort of project that crosses into less charted territory it is best for the owner to know more than most other typical owners when it comes to how their vehicle is getting tuned.

I feel for you OBD-I guys because you just don't have many options out there and the ones that are available aren't the most attractive. You have hardware from when EFI tuning was in its infancy and as a result there is only so much that modern technology can do to provide you options. Best of luck with the build.

 

[jd4242]

As another person who also custom tunes ECU's I can tell you that sometimes there is very little option with things. This is very much the case with the OBD-I stuff. James and I have been close friends for a VERY long time and I will vouch that if he can help then he will. But if he cannot then he will not beat around the bush and try to bullshit you like many other tunes will do just to get their foot in the door to get your money. However, since your sensors need to be datalogged in a way that requires a different sort of datalogging setup then it becomes MUCH MUCH harder to remote tune. Datalogging equipment is not cheap and loaning it out isn't really an option unless it isn't being used much and it is a favor for a friend.

The bottom line is that since you have OBD-I you or your tuner will need two separate things; instead of one like the OBD-II guys with the Xcal units. A datalogger, and some way to tune the ECU. The datalogger you have a few options with such as Zeitronix (mixed reviews), Sneec, and others I am sure are out there. And then the chip itself which I recommend SCT Eliminator because it is the best Ford tuning chip on the market in mine and many others opinions. Some of this information I am sure you already know.

What else exactly did you want James to answer? He told you what you needed to log your truck and what you needed to tune it with.

All that info is what i was looking for.thank you.don't get me wrong not bad mouthing him AT all and mean no disrespect.just felt shorted when it came to info,he is one of the most knowledgeable person on this stuff.just wanted info and advice before going blind into a tuner .

 

[jd4242]

Anyone know if the fuel line quick connectors in a 5.0 mustang the same as ours?i found a fmu i think i may wanna use
http://m.summitracing.com/parts/VOR-4FA238-088

??

 

[jd4242]

what all would be involved in a obd2 swap?