My new 347

[vroomzoomboom]

you've been busy, and you lied to me! sister in town eh? if i can get there tomorrow i will. if not monday for sure.

 

[Dono]

I was able to get a few hours in yesterday morning on the truck. The bolts come out pretty quick. The more practice I get, the faster I am. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

Once again (3rd time in a very short period) Thanks Tim. Picker, engine stand, and labor. Going out of your way big time.

 

[Dono]

Motor pull was easy this time.
No stress. Hooked the chain on, pulled the last 2 motor mount bolts, and out she came.
]This time Tim went thru the bellhousing drain plug hole for the torque converter with a screwdriver to make sure the tc stayed sealed against the trans. It was quick and easy.
The oil leak? no obvious holes causing the leak.
Lower intake is dry. Valve covers are dry. Whats with the splatter on the side of the oil pan?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

now that i see these on my computer scree, yea, that rear main does look like it was leaking pretty good

 

[Dono]

The enlarged pictures sure do make it look like it.

That's really the only thing left anyway.

 

[Dono]

I cleaned everything up and pulled the old rear main. The spring was still in it. I couldn't see or feel any issues with it. That scares me.

I decided to install the teflon rear main. I used ultra blue since I had it on hand. I can't see an issue with using this stuff, as its not cheap. I ran a very thin coat around the outside of the seal before pushing it around the crank. Interesting that there is no spring around the teflon rear main, but whatever. Here we go.

I can always remove the cap and re-do if Woody thinks I did a very bad thing. I know he installs the seal dry except for a dab at the two corners of the seal before the cap goes on.

I checked the pan for fitment around the block first without, and then with the gasket. With the gasket on, I used a dental pick (thanks Tim) to push on the gasket and feel for loosness in different areas. It seemed pretty tight everywhere.

I have no idea what the issue is.

 

[skpyle]

Hello Dono, I've been watching this thread since you started it, as I am lusting after a 347 for my 1999 5.0L AWD Explorer. Good stuff in here, though I feel for you on the trials and tribulations you have been going through.

I don't mean to be stupid, but should there be that much copper showing on the rear lower main bearing???

Thanks,

Seth K. Pyle

 

[Dono]

Seth, I looked at that also.
I don't know. I will be asking Woody about the bearing before the motor goes back in.

edit: looks normal
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/bearingwear/bearingwearanalysis.htm

 

[CDW6212R]

It looks good in the pictures. Great work again to R&R the whole thing so quickly. You are getting good at that, hopefully you will later on appreciate the experience even though it wasn't planned.

What you did to replace the main seal looks right, the RTV should stick to all of those surfaces and not allow a leak. The bearing looks okay to me, they all lose most of the outer layer soon after being run. The crank journal looks good, that's the part you want to stay as new.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

hey don, one more thing. i know i was mentioning this today, but when you talk to woody, also ask him if he thinks by priming the motor with a drill if there would be enough pressure to show a leak. if he does, i would dump oil back in with the dye, prime it and recheck it before we stab it back in.

 

[jd4242]

hey don, one more thing. i know i was mentioning this today, but when you talk to woody, also ask him if he thinks by priming the motor with a drill if there would be enough pressure to show a leak. if he does, i would dump oil back in with the dye, prime it and recheck it before we stab it back in.

When i was checking my block for cracks,i was able to build full oil psi with a drill..i even went as far as taping up the water pump and adding hot water from the stove to the motor, then spun the oil pump by where the cps goes..i also used dye

 

[Dono]

I'll ask the question. I might just do it anyway, as he may not have the answer.
Its definitely worth a try. I'd still be able to run the motor with the dye in it so it wouldnt be a waste. First oil change would come quickly anyway since the motor has been apart.

edit: Good to see you not posting trash JD, you must be off the heavy drugs.
The surgery you just went thru is delicate and risky.

 

[Dono]

I emailed the pitures to Woody and spoke with him today.
He said the bearing wear looks great for a 150,000 mile motor.

So, he sent me back to the motor with some homework. He said rotate the bearings out, keeping them in order, and write down the size of each one. He would then put together a care package for me and ship out the bearings no charge.

While doing this, Tim texted me and suggested I check the rod bearings also, since I'm right there anyway.

Well, its a show stopper. The 2nd rod cap I pulled spoke volumes. The crank is scored.

I emailed Woody this pic explaining I wouldn't be needing the bearings, as I have bigger issues. I feel bad about trashing Woody's handiwork, and I'll feel even worse waiting a very long time just to spend a bunch more money.

Could the broken gear have caused this much damage? Its speculation at this point. I am very certain that the crank walking around was causing my rear main to leak though. On the up side, the motor didn't go back in just so I could pull it again.

All the reputable shops sound very busy around here.

 

[gmanpaint]

Wow, I would be extremely upset after all that work to find that out.

If I'm understanding this, Woody put the short block together for you correct?

 

[Dono]

Yes, the short block only. No oil pump, pan, etc.
Yes, Im upset. Im so deep in to this, there is no stopping now.
I can only think it would be worse if I'd have put the motor back in with the bearings like that.
I do know its crank bearings and rod bearings that are destroyed, along with some of the crank. Cam bearings are yet to be determined.

I would find it extremely unlikely that all bearings would have too tight of clearances. Something else went on. It had to be when the distributor gear broke. I did have an oil leak right away, so I can only guess the bearings were taken out right away.

 

[CDW6212R]

I hate to see any of that rod bearing/crank wear. It does seem most likely that some tiny debris got in there to them.


But the rear seal wouldn't leak from any minor crank journal wear. The crank would have to be vibrating violently to deform enough to affect that seal. Seeing the rear seal and surrounding area in person is ideal to evaluate the leak, and I'm sure that's what Woody is thinking when he asked for lots of good pictures. For the leak it seems that somehow the surfaces weren't perfect around the rear seal(RTV application). That kind of noticeable fast leak would point to a spot at the corner of the seal and block/cap, or a badly worn crank(seal surface). That's all hopefully a non issue now, given a new seal being installed.

Bottom line is that hopefully the crank is not hurt much, and just a light cleanup/polishing will correct it. That's a call for an expert builder to make.

Take some great detailed pictures of the crank journals, and the bearings. Send those to Woody and see if he thinks it's a somewhat quick job to rework the crank. Hopefully he will say that and you can put the engine back together and in fairly soon again. I've got my fingers crossed for that.

 

[Dono]

Word came back tonight from Woody.
To have scoring like that it was oil starvation under load.
I really don't know how that could be. Stock pan, stock pick up. Where the pickup is, the pan is at an angle, so it can't sit flush against the bottom of the pan. I'm sure its fine. Was the oil pump and pickup gasketed and tight? Yes. My dummy gauge was showing oil pressure all the time, except on the gear breakage. It might be a good idea for me to tee off the oil sending unit again and add a real oil pressure gauge.
I am not sure I'll ever know what happened, other than the gear breaking.
Being that the crank end play is ok, its not the torque converter pushing in to the crank.

Is the oil pump damaged? Maybe. Will I be replacing it? Definitely.

A local shop will get the shortblock. I took a night off tonight. Hopefully I'll find a machine shop that is reputable and can fix it up for me fairly quickly and I can get the block there sooner than later. I am not ruling out the machine shop that did the work on my 4.0ohv. Although they are not a 'performance' machine shop, the machinists there have many, many years experience.

 

[Turdle]

I'm willing to bet the broken gear happened well before you caught it.
Oil pressure went to 0 when the gear broke. The new bearings were tight and boom, it happened.

Man I feel for you.


I still wonder why the Ford Gods make everyone go through a stroker engine install at least 2 times. I just don't get it. Everything checks out right the first time but it obviously isn't, in every attempt.

I know what you are going through and it sucks.

 

[Dono]

I think your right on the gear. No exhaust bolted up when we were running it. I didn't really watch the gauge as I had primed the motor multiple times and all was good. Hind sight being what it is, I should have been staring at that gauge.

Were all getting our turn at living the pain. I don't really understand why either. Its like the 347 gods are angry with those that install one in an Explorer.

I just ordered up a new oil pump and all the gaskets needed.

Thanks for the sentiment. I hope I'm not bringing back nightmares for you.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

I hope I'm not bringing back nightmares for you.

um kinda....but some of us are living it with you. i know when i am thinking back to that, i should have told you to shut it off when i heard something when it happen