My new 347

[Turdle]

Nightmares no, memories of falling asleep under a truck yes.

In the end you'll be just a little tougher. Grizzled might be a better term.


I know you'll get this straightened out. I can't point my finger at any one thing though. Normally I think the Cam sensor gears are hardened. I'd just mark it down as bad luck. Gears can break. I wish that gear had broken on someone I didn't know though.

 

[skpyle]

Damn the luck, Dono. Sorry.

Only reason I asked about the copper showing on the bearing was from my experience with oil starvation on a past engine. Ouch

Good luck with getting the short block repaired!

Seth K. Pyle

 

[CDW6212R]

I know that feeling too. I've had one engine that I built start up with virtually no oil pressure.

It was my fault then for not remembering what the crank was turned to, and the bearings I had bought long before. They didn't match and the extra .010" clearance wiped them out fast. I was lucky though that the crank was okay to reuse, but it all had to come apart of course. I almost forgot that, being 30+ years ago.

 

[skpyle]

Yes, but least that is an honorable mistake. I learned the hard way that you ate required to change the oil filter after breaking in the cam. Cam & lifter lube plugs the oil filter. Which leads to the crank snapping. While your wife is driving...

Dono, at least it looks like your crank is salvagable.

Seth K. Pyle

 

[Dono]

off to the doctor

And, the motor is stripped to the short block and at the machinists.

Sounds like it will take about a week to get the news.
I decided to take the heads in also so they can check them quickly. I don't expect any issues, but there just might be a slight warp to them from being removed. I just don't want to take the chance.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

 

[4pointslow]

engine

I just got back to my computer at home and found this.
I am so sorry to hear you going through this mess and I hope it is straightened out quickly.

The curse of the 347? Very well could be.

 

[Dono]

It just doesn't make sense to me that my motor could be starved for oil like that under load.

I'll pull the old oil pump apart and have a look at it this weekend. Failing that, I really hope the machine shop finds a plugged oil galley.

I'll pick up my new oil gauge on monday.

 

[CDW6212R]

I'd trust what the builder Woody says. But the oil pressure wasn't there when the engine was first started, with the gear shearing away. That lack of oil pressure right at the start is probably the wear on the crank.

Definitely have the oil galleys checked as much as they can for debris. The oil filter shouldn't have bypassed anything at the beginning, it was new and clean.

 

[Dono]

Woody says it was oil starvation under load.
The link I posted from bobistheoilguy confirms this also.
No way all that wear was from the broken gear. There's more to this than that broken gear. What is is, no one knows yet.

 

[Turdle]

Don. You must understand something. That gear drives the oil pump. When the gear went, so did all oil pressure. The damage from that probably occurred in less than half a second. I would attribute all the damage to tht gear being gone.

Tolerances inside a new engine are tight tight. Every combustion cycle sent metal into metal ( at the rod and main bearings) with no oil to cushion it. At 900 rpm idle, each piston was coming up 15 times every second. That is a lot of friction.

 

[Dono]

Don. You must understand something. That gear drives the oil pump. When the gear went, so did all oil pressure. The damage from that probably occurred in less than half a second. I would attribute all the damage to tht gear being gone.

Tolerances inside a new engine are tight tight. Every combustion cycle sent metal into metal ( at the rod and main bearings) with no oil to cushion it. At 900 rpm idle, each piston was coming up 15 times every second. That is a lot of friction.

I get that, but the consensus is that the damage seen is from oil starvation under load.

If nothing is found, the fixed motor will be going back in with a new oil pump at the very least.

 

[CDW6212R]

Do you still have the oil pump, I'd have taken it apart first thing. The pump will be a pass/fail deal, everything is perfect or there will be some signs of galling/etc, of the two gears. When I learned to build an engine in 1980, you would take apart a brand new oil pump, and be sure it all was tightly fitted. One thought was to lightly finish sand the outer plate to be sure it was ultra smooth. I followed that advice for my first three engines, but never saw any real difference before and after. Then I took apart the next couple of oil pumps to inspect, but not again after those(mid 80's).

Jon is thinking what I am, with virtually no oil from the start the crank and bearings were unhappy(began to gall).

My biggest concern, after refinishing the crank, would be the fitment of the distributor(cam synch). That gear relationship to the cam is critical, and it seems so far that the gear itself was a poor part. But that's hard to believe. It makes more sense to think that the gear was actually too low on the shaft and didn't properly engage the cam gear.

 

[Dono]

I looked at the 'distributor' gear when I pulled it out. The wear (shiny) is right in the center. Id say thats a good thing.

For $50.00 I have a new oil pump in my hands. I don't want to risk it. I did think about taking the new pump apart also and polishing it up and making double sure there are no burr's that could case issues.

You guys could absolutely be right, and at this point I really hope so. Every one here will have to excuse me for being so pessimistic, but this engine swap has not gone well.

 

[CDW6212R]

When you get a chance take the old pump apart just to see what's in them. It's only the internal two gears and the cover plate basically. Take the four bolts out and look it over. There is also a hole on the side with a spring and valve piece that nobody messes with, don't worry with that part.

 

[Dono]

I just pulled it apart. Its a pretty well built piece.
Not really much to clean up. I really don't see any casting flash to worry about.

I gave a few spots a lite polish, but its a nice piece without really doing anything. I gave it a really good clean, and a super light smear of assembly lube on metal to metal rotating parts

I thought it would br more like my scavenge pump, but its not. I can see how they would be super reliable.

 

[4pointslow]

pump

Now that you have seen the new pump you should take apart the old one to compare it to. If you have time.
Or was that the old one?

 

[Dono]

I just pulled the old one apart.
Its nice and smooth in how it operates. If I get energetic during the day, I'll look for a mark on the pump lobes that might have caused the pump to stall and break the gear.

Now that I see how they work, I wouldn't have bought a new one.

No gears, but more of a lobe. Like a cam lobes. No wonder they used this style of pump for decades.

So, it definitely was not a weak pump that caused this.

I just want to get past the motor issues and start messing with the turbo some more.

 

[CDW6212R]

I just pulled it apart. Its a pretty well built piece.
Not really much to clean up. I really don't see any casting flash to worry about.

I gave a few spots a lite polish, but its a nice piece without really doing anything. I gave it a really good clean, and a super light smear of assembly lube on metal to metal rotating parts

I thought it would br more like my scavenge pump, but its not. I can see how they would be super reliable.

Excellent, and now you know how simple they are.

The only critical thing to the oil pump is that it has plenty of lube or grease in it. I think just oil will do, but for how long it could be till someone installs and starts an engine, a light grease is the way. Don't put one together dry, that might not prime at all.

 

[Dono]

And.......

News from the machine shop.
1. The mains on the crank are ok. Need new standard sized bearings.
2. Need to turn the crank down on the rod side. 20 thou.
3. One intake valve is bent slightly. Very strange. Must have been like that from install.
4. Head surface is rougher than it should really be for a performance build and they suggest a very slight clean up. I do know the head surface looked not great, as I made silent note of that when I installed them.
Everything else checks out just fine.

For the bearings, I called Jim. We are getting on first name basis now. Nicole will put together a care package of bearings for me.

The heads are a different story.
I bought them used with the valves already installed. They went straight to 'Thumper' for porting. He must have missed the valve.
I really don't know for sure what valves went in the first time. I found stainless steel valves that match the machine shop's measurements at Alex's Parts, so that's what Im ordering.

I don't see the motor going back together very quickly. Shipping time is going to kill me.