The Black Hole

[gmanpaint]

I am awaiting a response from Dixon Bros on the crossmember. If they seem to think it is good enough, I am going to get it. I will try it out for a while, and see what happens. If I think a set of kickers are needed, I will start working on that when the time comes. I am flooded with projects right now, and I don't think I can handle much more at the present time. My head is spinning as it is with all the things being done here in the next 2 weeks.

 

[Scott B.]

...
If the T-bars do in fact offer rear latteral support, ...

I don't think they will offer much if any lateral support. Remember, they are attached to the lower A-arm with a slip joint.

Some sort of kicker would be ideal - similar to what RCD built.

You could weld a support to the Dixon cross member, run it to your transmission cross member. It will hang down a little, but I think the support given would be a much greater advantage than the ground clearance taken away.

 

[97sprt4x4]

You could weld a support to the Dixon cross member, run it to your transmission cross member. It will hang down a little, but I think the support given would be a much greater advantage than the ground clearance taken away.

i don't think that would work if he flexed... that's why the RCD one is on swivels on both ends. I'm not really sure what would work, but you can't have something solid or it will stress it when the frame twists, and probably snap eventually.

 

[gmanpaint]

I am not really sure what to think of all this guys. One person says the T-bars offer support, another says no. I do think that Dixon has developed the crossmember for the long travel kit they offer because of the force is multiplied on the bushings, and should help mine considerably. I still have not heard back from them. I emailed and placed a call and had to leave a message.

I really don't want to have to weld anything in place. I need to be able to have bolt on mods here. The back force pushed on the kickers is kind of confusing though. If they swivel, how does it really prevent the front bushing from getting forced outward, and the back bushing forced inward? Follow me here?

I really appreciate all the feedback from you guys, it helps me more than you know.

 

[inh]

I'm of the opinion the torsion bars do not offer support. One, they are just slipped in there. Sure it's a semi tight fit, but they're still just slipped in. Two, it doesn't make sense that Ford would use a long metal rod, already under rotational tension, to provide lateral support. Seems like a bad idear if you ask me..

Superlift doesn't provide kickers for their lifts, and I've never heard of anyone bending their front crossmember backwards because they didn't have em...

Also, with the RCD style ones, the pivots are there, I believe, so that when the frame twists, as frames are wont to do, the kickers can pivot a little bit, so they don't twist and break welds. They still provide support on the cross member while pushing backwards though, because the pivots wont move if you hit something head on. In order for that to happen, one of the mounts would have to twist off the frame or cross member, giving the pivoted joint somewhere to move to. Otherwise you just transfer the forces straight past the joint, through the mount, and in to the frame. It's kind of like you arm. Press your fist in to the wall straight on and your wrist wont rotate unless you move your forearm or 'break the mount' of your knuckles against the wall.

Hope that makes sense =]

 

[Elessar65]

Gregg, I think they will be good for most stuff, but eventually you will want/need trailing arms.

 

[corkey]

go ahead, experiment with the rear crossmember and keep us informed,
the dixon brothers long travel kit is meant for high speed running, and maybe that is important for keeping things in place when landing off jumps

 

[gmanpaint]

Yeah, I really think the Kickers are for the drop bracket crossmember only. My stock crossmember is part of my frame, and I really don't think it is going anywhere.

The Dixon crossmember will take care of the triangulation needed for the LCA bushings just fine I believe.

I am not going to worry about the kickers any more.

 

[Turdle]

You aint here yet? :

 

[Scott B.]

...
Superlift doesn't provide kickers for their lifts, ...

In my opinion, Superlift does not build the best kits. While their kits might survive for a few years, I do not think they are built strong enough to last many years and miles (and hard use.)

Not that I'm a huge Rancho fan, but my [modified] Rancho kit has over 200K miles on it, and is still solid. I don't think a Superlift kit would last that many miles.

Not to start a flame war here, just sayin...

 

[gmanpaint]

You aint here yet? :

I'm loading up now. I'm chillin Turdlemiester. :smokinfro

 

[cybergasm]

Are we there yet? :

 

[dkchrist]

Doh Double post!

 

[dkchrist]

I'm of the opinion the torsion bars do not offer support. One, they are just slipped in there. Sure it's a semi tight fit, but they're still just slipped in. Two, it doesn't make sense that Ford would use a long metal rod, already under rotational tension, to provide lateral support. Seems like a bad idear if you ask me..

The bars provide support for the arms to prevent the arms from twisting to the back of the vehicle. After rethinking the support of the arms, the Dixon brace should be more than sufficient for a vehicle without lift brackets.

Also with out going into a lecture, bars in compression work well. The basis for a four link is bars in compression and tension.

 

[Turdle]

Hey, where's my sammich?

 

[97sprt4x4]

Also with out going into a lecture, bars in compression work well. The basis for a four link is bars in compression and tension.

isn't a four link suspension set up done on a solid axle. I could see the need for it there because the axle is held to the truck by springs, shocks and a drive shaft. But in this case, the cross member is part of the frame.

I'm not trying to contradict, just to understand as this very well may be the way i end up going.

Justin

 

[dkchrist]

isn't a four link suspension set up done on a solid axle. I could see the need for it there because the axle is held to the truck by springs, shocks and a drive shaft. But in this case, the cross member is part of the frame.

I'm not trying to contradict, just to understand as this very well may be the way i end up going.

Justin

Even though it is hooked to the frame it can only resist so much before something gives. The most likely point will be the LCA rear mount. With out the tbars it needs support. Hence why RCD boxes the lower section and adds kicker braces and Dixon ties the rear mounts to one another.

With the drop bracket kicker braces, are necessary. With out, tying the rear mounts together should be good.

The four link example is just to prove the ability or a round bar to support compression.

 

[inh]

Also with out going into a lecture, bars in compression work well. The basis for a four link is bars in compression and tension.

But the torsion bars are not only under lateral tension and compression, but rotational tension as well. Just seems a bit much to ask of the tbars all at once.

 

[CDW6212R]

Stop talking about the torsion bars as a support device or for any purpose but twisting force on the LCA front surface. The torsion bar touches nothing except the two ends that are holding it. The rear of the LCA has a huge hole in it for the torsion bar to go through, they never touch.

I agree about the support issue of the lifted trucks with the lift brackets. As those get farther down away from the frame, there can be more movement or deflection. I'd lay under there and consider what the suspension tries to do when the truck gets twisted in use. If it seems like the LCA may push/pull the mounting points, figure out which way it wants to move, and how to make a brace to stop that.

 

[section525]

Here is the answer to the support problem.

That looks like something that could be easily made.