Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

As some of you know, I am working on building a parts list for a shortened Dana 44, long radius arm with coil overs SAS. 5:13 gears to match my rear axle and an ARB, maybe an electric locker. I have a pretty good list so far. At the same time, I am going to swap out the rear drum brakes for discs off of a 99 Explorer.

Please note: The plan is to keep this project as simple as possible with mostly off the shelf parts. I am not a fabricator, just a decent welder with a what I would consider the minimum required tools (chop saw, cut off wheels, air tools, welder, etc.), who likes doing his own work. Your opinions are welcome, but what I really need is technical advice. I have been thinking about this for several years and now have the time and cash to make it happen. Please keep on topic with your advice and don't go off on a side track about how you would do it as a four-link, or caged arms, or leave the axle full-width because that is not what I want. I want a simple-ish set up that works.

 

[BKennedy]

This last Truckhaven trip was a blast, but it made me realize I really need to redo the rear shock mounts before it goes out of the garage again. Ended up with a bent axle mount on two out of the four. I also was going about 55 down a washboard dirt road on Tuesday and really paid attention to the suspension movement/feel. Front is smooth, real smooth. Rear tends to rebound out the dips a little too aggressively. I think that is due, in part to the severe angle of my rear shocks reducing their effectiveness. Rick pointed out his rear shock mounts are perpendicular to the axle like mine are now, but double sheer. I can make that work with the RuffStuff mounts I already have, just need to modify them. This should help in a few ways; it will greatly reduce binding at the shock bushings so I shouldn't lose any flex. It allows me to lean the shocks inward slightly so I don't have to lean them back very far, and retain the longer shocks. With the shocks leaned in slightly, it should reduce their effectiveness slightly, which should mean the double shock setup would not be too stiff.

I will be tearing into it this week and will post updates.

 

[Kirby N.]

Sounds like a great plan. No wheeling pics?

 

[BKennedy]

I got a few poser pics, but I did not really take many of my own rig.

I was planning on driving up on top of that rock but it kept moving. When I backed off of it, it rolled out from under the tire.

 

[BKennedy]

Got ambitious and started removing old shock mounts.
The shocks I have are still in great shape

They are 8.25" travel

Old, crooked junk

Gone

Lots of room

The plan is to weld these two mounts together as pictured and weld them to the rear of the axle with some gussets and a skid plate (sorry about the sideways pic)

Welded back to back puts the mounting holes 3" apart, just enough room for the shocks to clear each other.

The top mount will be made with 1.5" square tubing. Need to go to the metal supply store and pull the tires and leaf springs, leaving the main leaf to articulate the axle (thanks Chris for the idea).

 

[turboexplorer]

leaving the main leaf to articulate the axle (thanks Chris for the idea).

Same thing I am going to do when installing my new leafs.

 

[BKennedy]

I just wanted to make sure I got this right; when setting up mounts to get the most out of the shocks, compression or rebound is not a factor since ride height is determined by the leaf springs. What matters is that the shocks allow the leafs to fully articulate, correct??

I spent so much time figuring out ride height with the front coil overs that I confused myself when I was doing my usual overthinking on the rear suspension.

 

[sirhk100]

Couple things, assuming you haven't pulled the leafs apart yet. Grab two decent sized c clamps. Put one on each side of the center bolt on the leaf pack and clamp them tight. Pull the nut off the center bolt and slowly work the clamps loose. Some packs will literally explode apart when that bolt is removed, others won't. You won't know till it happens and you probably don't want to find out the hard way. I use the clamps to work the packs back together on reassembly too. Just a heads up though, you could get hurt without using the c-clamps depending how much tension your pack is under even just laying on the ground off the vehicle when you remove that center bolt. You may find you won't need them but better safe then sorry...


As for cycling... Don't worry too much about ride height. Your goal is to use as much of the shock as you can over the entire movement of your suspension. In a perfect world, your shocks should be 90 degrees to the axle at bump but that's not going to happen. On mine, I basically mocked up full bump of the axle/leaf pack. I then put the lower shock mount where I wanted it and with about 3/8" of shock shaft showing I swung the upper mount to where I wanted it. Tacked up my mounts and went to full droop to see if I was limiting my droop at all. From there I kind of adjusted and met in the middle for what I wanted.

Hopefully that makes a little sense? If you find your ride height though is like 2" from full bump or 2" from full droop and it's your shock, not the leaf that's limiting that, you may want to sacrifice some bump for droop or vice versa adjusting your shock mounts.

You're doing the work to do it right though! You'll figure it out... I bet less then a percent of people do this and really, to get the most out of any setup, it's really needed...

If you didn't have space limitations I could explain a pretty easy way to locate your upper mounts but it won't work for us trying to keep the shocks under the cab.

Have fun compressing the shocks and keeping them compressed to figure out your bump location! LOL I just bleed the shock and then recharge it, doesn't look like you have that option though.

 

[johnny499]

Angles and the leverage they create will effect the compression and rebound dampening ability of the shock. Those are things to consider if the angles get to extreme. For the most part if the shock is mounted so it does not stop the movement of the springs either in compression or extension and still uses most of the shock travel. Then you have utilized them to there best ability. This is what i have been told and also experienced any way. I am about to be dealing with the same decisions on mine, both front and rear.

 

[sirhk100]

Angles and the leverage they create will effect the compression and rebound dampening ability of the shock. Those are things to consider if the angles get to extreme. .

While very true, sometimes other factors like space limitations come into play that just don't allow for a perfect world mounting scenario so we're forced to lay the shocks in angles that aren't exactly perfect just cause it's the cards we're dealt. In theory, most of us at the level our rigs are built should have the shocks sticking up into the cab, we just aren't willing to though and deal with extreme valving or multiple shocks to try and bandaid a non-perfect mounting scenario.

 

[johnny499]

While very true, sometimes other factors like space limitations come into play that just don't allow for a perfect world mounting scenario so we're forced to lay the shocks in angles that aren't exactly perfect just cause it's the cards we're dealt. In theory, most of us at the level our rigs are built should have the shocks sticking up into the cab, we just aren't willing to though and deal with extreme valving or multiple shocks to try and bandaid a non-perfect mounting scenario.

Agreed absolutely!!!

 

[BKennedy]

Thanks. Knew about the C-clamp use. Already have them apart and my new super custom wood spacers in place.

Sent from my XT907 using Forum Runner

 

[sirhk100]

Cool, wasn't sure if you were there or not already but figured can't help to throw out the info just in case you weren't and didn't know... Better safe then sorry!

 

[RockRanger]

If you didn't have space limitations I could explain a pretty easy way to locate your upper mounts but it won't work for us trying to keep the shocks under the cab.

For those that don't have this limitation what do you have? On my ranger I am planning a few changes to rear suspension. I could raise the upper mounts a few inches over stock or mount the shocks outside the frame.

 

[BKennedy]

For those that don't have this limitation what do you have? On my ranger I am planning a few changes to rear suspension. I could raise the upper mounts a few inches over stock or mount the shocks outside the frame.

I think he means running the shocks through the floor and tying them into a cage, or something like that..

Today was mostly spent moving stuff out of the way. Springs, battery and mount, exhaust, etc..
New wood leaf springs;

Made some more room;

Turning a square hole into a round one (1.75DOM inside the original mount with plug weld holes);

I can't move the mount forward due to the gas tank filler lines so I have to go around it (it will make more sense as I go along);

1.5 DOM for the cross bar (inside the 1.75 DOM, which is inside the original mount). I am going to plug weld through the 1.75, and fully weld the ends;

Then I am going go build off of this by going 90* up about 4", then across about 1" under the body. Using round instead of square tubing allows me to pivot the mount anyway I need, and I can turn it upside-down to finish weld it.

 

[sirhk100]

If I'm following you, makes sense to me with what you have going on! Will be cool to see the finished results!

As for shock mounts, yes, talking going thru the floor or bed or whatever to stand them up basically as they should be. With the amount of travel some of our leaf packs are capable of the shocks really don't have the space in a perfect setup to stay under the floor/bed. If you're asking how to find that sweet spot of an upper mount though... Let me know, I'll PM you the details on that. A couple quick hand sketches scanned into the computer will make it really simple for anyone to understand.

 

[Kirby N.]

Couple things, assuming you haven't pulled the leafs apart yet. Grab two decent sized c clamps. Put one on each side of the center bolt on the leaf pack and clamp them tight. Pull the nut off the center bolt and slowly work the clamps loose. Some packs will literally explode apart when that bolt is removed, others won't. You won't know till it happens and you probably don't want to find out the hard way. I use the clamps to work the packs back together on reassembly too. Just a heads up though, you could get hurt without using the c-clamps depending how much tension your pack is under even just laying on the ground off the vehicle when you remove that center bolt. You may find you won't need them but better safe

Even better- get a new pin. Usually they are 4" or so long. Thread it through all the leaves, put a nut on and tighten down. This slowly and safely clamps them all together. Then trim the excess. The pins do fail and it is a good idea to replace them. The spring shop here in my town sells them for 10 bucks or so.

 

[BKennedy]

I replaced the pins when I had the leafs apart last year.

 

[sirhk100]

Even better- get a new pin. Usually they are 4" or so long. Thread it through all the leaves, put a nut on and tighten down. This slowly and safely clamps them all together. Then trim the excess. The pins do fail and it is a good idea to replace them. The spring shop here in my town sells them for 10 bucks or so.

My problem is the leaf pack I deal the most with is 13 or 14 leafs thick and when they're released they spread about a foot! LOL I've got it down to a routine for disassembly/assembly of them though. I usually replace the pins every 3rd time I have them apart.

 

[james t]

Have fun compressing the shocks and keeping them compressed to figure out your bump location! LOL I just bleed the shock and then recharge it, doesn't look like you have that option though.

I built a fake shock out of hardware store pipe and all-thread just for this purpose. I cant remember what size sch40 it was, but I cut the ends the same width as the shock heims and drilled them for the proper size bolt. All thread let me set the dummy shock at whatever travel I wanted. (this idea will NOT work for coilovers if you need vehicle weight on them lol)

 

[BKennedy]

I just use a thin ratchet strap for the shock compression. It works good enough to get them fitted. I like the fake shock idea James. It would work for coil overs when setting the original ride height and for welding to keep from having to worry about damaging new and expensive shocks.

Chris, is your dog about to attempt humping those springs (someday, I might actually spend the money for a set, they look nice)?

All I got done today was the ends welded up and gusseted. I need to do the top cross piece tomorrow, then I can place the axle mounts. In the pics they are angled back some. They should end up about an inch from the body on sides and top. Also need to wrap the gas tank filler hoses with something to keep them from rubbing.

Anybody know off the top of your head what diameter and fitting size the rear brake lines are? I am going to replace the hard lines while I am under there as they look like crap. They are the only original brake pieces left on the truck, excepting the main line from the master cylinder to the rear. I think they are standard 1/8" tubing with 1/4" fittings that take a 3/8" wrench.