and those J**pers thought Rubicons were invincible!

[Robert]

Originally posted by BigCJ7
[BI will put up ANY Wrangler to your Explorer, ANY DAY!!!!. . .4.10:1 LOCKING diffs, probably not even 31 inch M/T's, and I can tell you that inline 6 has MUCH more Torque than your engine, even if you have the 4.6 liter. . .[/B]

At my company of 70 employees, there are 6 Jeep Wranglers. Two of them are completely stock, complete with 215 75R15 tires and about 7" of ground clearance. The rest are pretty well built with 33" tires and necessary lifts to accommodate them. The two stock Wranglers have gone on a couple of outtings with us which included my Explorer. We were pretty limited where we could go since the stock Wranglers just didn't have the tires or clearance to go where we wanted to go. The stock Wranglers would have an equally difficult time going places that Curtis's Explorer could go. It is true that you can get a factory Jeep that will perform better offroad than any stock Explorer that Ford offers. Just don't be lead to believe that an Explorer is only capable of carrying groceries.

In regards to tires, Curtis's tires are 265 75R16s M/Ts which measure 31.7" and are being turned by 4.10 axles. So yes, they do exceed your belief of "probably not even 31 inch M/T's".

With regards to power, I don't know which I-6 you are referring to but the one in the 2003 Jeep Wrangler has 235 lb/ft of torque. Curtis's '99 has 240 lb/ft (if it is still stock). This is in contrast to your statment "I can tell you that inline 6 has MUCH more Torque than your engine". Curtis has the 4.0L SOHC since the 4.6L wasn't offered until 2002 and then only on the 4-doors. By the way the 4.6L has 282 lb/ft of torque which greatly exceeds the most powerful offering from any I-6 that Jeep offers. It's true that the Rubicon's 4:1 transfer case ratio will make up for the lack of torque, however the Rubicon is a special built Wrangler with offroading as the primary purpose. It does that well.

Finally, the most powerful Wrangler when equipped properly can only tow 2000 lbs. That would leave me about 1000 lbs. shy of my tent trailers gross weight, another downside to the Wrangler.

In closing, a final stament from Jeep: "With 190 horsepower and 235 pound-feet of torque, it offers quick acceleration on the straight-and-narrow and plenty of low-end torque on the inclines. Combine that with the I-6's ability to haul up to 2,000 pounds, when properly equipped, and you're ready for just about any adventure. " Just so long as that adventure doesn't include camping with a tent trailer, more than four people or a lot of gear.

You should learn more about a vehicle before you go in making unfounded statements.

 

[zensius]

A few years back a group of my friends went wheelin'. One of them had a brand new Defender 90. A very capable truck with lockers in front and back. Anyway, we were climbing a short rocky section of the Fordyce trail. He was the last one up. He took the trail at speed because he thought his vehicle could do no wrong. We didn't watch his spotter at all and got severly stuck. He started freakin' when he scratched the thing. It took hours to get out. When we finally got it out it didn't drive 'right'. Turned out he bent the frame!! Not the rig's fault.

 

[SaleenEXP]

BIGCJ7-

The Wrangler is slow whether equiped with a manual or auto with the inline six, "quick acceleration", look up some times for it, they are as slow or slower than a 4dr ohv V6, which I can vouch for as I've raced a few of my friends who have Wranglers (both auto and manual) at school, and they are all dogs compared to our 94' Explorer. And I've driven a manual one and been in an auto, sloooooow. The only one that was quicker was a kid who has a 350 dropped in his CJ7 and can light his tires up.

Looking over the Jeep forum (no offense to jeep owners) and this one, I along with probably everyone else will agree the Explorers are hard core off road and better than then Grand Cherokees when built up as I've seen pics of them offroading on the jeep forum and what the posters on their have to say (or most of their offroading stories alot of them had trouble on trails that our Explorers have whuped on, not calling them weak or anything cause I've seen built up Cherokee's and Grand Cherokees do well.

The Wrangler isn't even in the same class so quit yer *****in, out of the box, the Wrangler is not that good offroad as most "jeepers" seem to think, the Rubicon is the only exception, the stock wrangler is way more prone to tipping not sure about the Rubicon but I would think it's more resilient.

So you think your CJ7 is hardcore, and don't take offense to that , let somebody like Rick or others on here run their Explorers against yours or any other wrangler/cherokee and you'll see what an Explorer is capable of.

How come "jeepers" and on all their forums, all they do is flame and start hating on others including their own!???

kiss our :mattmoon: if your gonna start posting that crap over here.

 

[SteveVB]

Who cares?

You all are getting into a mines better than yours argument that no one wins.
Everyone buys a vehicle to suit them. Ive owned a few Cjs, my Navajo, some pickups etc they are 4wd and work fine for what I want to do with them. I can build an Explorer to be a trail beater just as I could be building a CJ (the AMC 390 in my garage gets me thinking every now and then ) to rule the trails, but as most everyone knows the driver and how well he or she knows their vehicle is more of a factor than brand. A really capable rig- built or bought in the hands of a poor driver is a poor rig. Nothing will change that.
Anyone can build a trail vehicle from ANY vehicle just as BigCj has, and Rick has ,and numerous S-10 owners, and Broncos etc. Jeep has come the closest with their new Rubicon, Ford has the FX4 which is great for those who dont have the time to build a rig.


Jeeps are good , Explorers are good, lets all get out in the woods and enjoy ourselves... before the trails are all closed!

 

[donkey boy]

BigCJ7:

From Jeeper to Jeeper: If you are here for a constructive discussion, welcome aboard. If you are just here for flaming, go home and grow up.

We Jeepers are not having the best reputation, too many of us are just too hypicritical that there is nothing better than our Jeeps, well - your Jeep, because probably a mildly built WJ like mine does not qualifies as a "real" Jeep in your eyes.

Probably many guys on this forum build more than many Jeepers because there are not just tons of aftermarket parts ready to slap on available like for the CJs, YJs and TJs. Listen and learn before you start bashing.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by donkey boy
BigCJ7:

From Jeeper to Jeeper: If you are here for a constructive discussion, welcome aboard. If you are just here for flaming, go home and grow up.

We Jeepers are not having the best reputation, too many of us are just too hypicritical that there is nothing better than our Jeeps, well - your Jeep, because probably a mildly built WJ like mine does not qualifies as a "real" Jeep in your eyes.

Probably many guys on this forum build more than many Jeepers because there are not just tons of aftermarket parts ready to slap on available like for the CJs, YJs and TJs. Listen and learn before you start bashing.

See BigCJ7, jeepers can be cool like donkey boy Props up bro, cause I think your one of the only "jeepers" that don't go around flamming or anything.

Don't get me worng, I'm not fond of jeeps but I have seen a few bad azz off road ones, your right about the aftermarket suport though, alone at my college theirs a few Explorers built for off-roading along with a couple massive F-250's,
F-350's my friends lifted Denali except now he has a 4X4 03' Ram 2500 with a diesel ect ect., but not a single Cherokee or Grand Cherokee or Wrangler has so much as an off-road tire on it here, and theres probably about 30 Grand Cherokee's at my school. And we all know how rare it is to see a modded Explorer The only jeeps here that are modded are a kids older CJ7 with a 350 and a girls Rubicon.

 

[donkey boy]

Originally posted by SaleenEXP
...couple massive F-250's, F-350's, my friends lifted Denali except now he has a 4X4 03' Ram 2500 with a diesel .... girls Rubicon.

Everytime you post, I wonder: Where the heck are you going to school to?

(psst ... any more info about the girl with the Rubi? If by any chance she looks like Salma Hayek, please tell her to contact me)

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by donkey boy
Everytime you post, I wonder: Where the heck are you going to school to?

(psst ... any more info about the girl with the Rubi? If by any chance she looks like Salma Hayek, please tell her to contact me)

Lynn University in Boca Raton, I know theres some sick cars - especially trucks here. Theres a few people on here who know what Boca Raton is like, especially where I live lol, it's nutz.

I have to get a digital camera for pics definitley. One of the lifted 02' F-250's is owned by a girl actually, my friends Denali was massive but it was a POS, his new Dodge is pretty nice though, he already has plans for a lift and a Banks kit on it. Besides the kids with Ferrari's and CL-600's, *******s. I think were the only un-stuck up family here.

But, yeh, theres actually a lot of people from up north and most of them have off-road mods on their trucks. Theres 3 lifted 1st gen Explorers though and there was a lifted 2nd gen that was nice.

Heh, actually the girl does have black hair and has that spanish look to her if ya know what I mean, definitley cute in my book. Her names Jen, she's not from FL though So I only get to see or chill with her durring school, which is good

I thought the Rubicon would be harder on road but the more I think about it, it doesn't really ride that much worse than a stock wranger, it has a more "buttoned" down type of feel to it. Looks cool though, and she said she's actually had it offroad a few times, nothing serious though.

 

[BigCJ7]

I was responding to your flaming of the Rubi and Jeeps in general. I invite any of you to come follow me on any trail I am on. Hell, I'll even follow you, as long as you don't get stuck and let me get past...
FYI: The Rubi is a stock Jeep until someone puts a lift and bigger tires on it.
How bout a trip to Clayton OK? You guys get out there and get to scarring up that sheet metal.....

 

[RFR2212]

Originally posted by BigCJ7
I was responding to your flaming of the Rubi and Jeeps in general. I invite any of you to come follow me on any trail I am on. Hell, I'll even follow you, as long as you don't get stuck and let me get past...
FYI: The Rubi is a stock Jeep until someone puts a lift and bigger tires on it.
How bout a trip to Clayton OK? You guys get out there and get to scarring up that sheet metal.....

Sounds like a plan for someone, assuming you or one of us was driving a comperable vehicle.

 

[Joe93]

Well I'm sure My opinion won't matter any but I have driven the Jeep rubicon offroad and I would have to say that it is the best stock 4x4 I have driven offroad and I have driven plenty of them. I took the jeep places where I have tried to take my old explorer and the jeep did it with out a problem.

 

[Robert]

There is no disputing that the Jeep Rubicon is one of the best (some may argue it is the best, others will have another choice) stock vehicle for off-roading. What is in dispute is his comment that he would put up any Wrangler against Curtis's Explorer any day. Granted Curtis's Explorer isn't comparible to some of the Big Dogs here, but it would still do better than a lot of stock Wranglers. A Jeep Rubicon? no, but better than some.

 

[RFR2212]

Originally posted by Robert
There is no disputing that the Jeep Rubicon is one of the best (some may argue it is the best, others will have another choice) stock vehicle for off-roading.

mmmhmmm I'll agree to that.. Off the lot. But for the money you pay, you can build alot more. That in itself is another debate. I'll definately agree. Take a stock explorer vs. a rubicon and I'm tippin my hat towards the rubicon

 

[TarHeel085]

Originally posted by BigCJ7
I was responding to your flaming of the Rubi and Jeeps in general. I invite any of you to come follow me on any trail I am on. Hell, I'll even follow you, as long as you don't get stuck and let me get past...
FYI: The Rubi is a stock Jeep until someone puts a lift and bigger tires on it.
How bout a trip to Clayton OK? You guys get out there and get to scarring up that sheet metal.....

i wasnt flaming Jeeps at all cause i have one as well. most of the people i wheel with have Jeeps their just afflicted with the JAS syndrome (Jeeps are superior) which in most cases they are and arent. for instance i pulled out an XJ today and he was just a little bit pissed that an Explorer pulled him out, to the point where he said he wouldnt let me pull him out again (JAS syndrome) and i garundamntee when he gets stuck again he'll call me.

 

[BigCJ7]

Well, for the record, I have been pulled out of the mountains once by an Explorer, and it was Mine. My Jeep and I were on a late night rampage in VA's Shenendoa mountains and got to where I ended up jumping something on accident, rattled the alternator bolts right out of the hole (stripped the hole out) and when I tried to restart my jeep was flooded due to my foot being all the way down to the floor when it quit on me. I radio'ed my buddy at the cabin and had him bring my 2002 exploder with the 4.6 out and yanked my butt off the trail and back to the cabin. I can tell you that my Jeep is better off road than ANY other vehicle I have driven, including the Explorer and the Mountaineer. I can't say much for it on the city streets or on the Hwy though....

 

[00sport]

Originally posted by BigCJ7
Use the Explorer for what it was made for, getting groceries.

Originally posted by BigCJ7
Well, for the record, I have been pulled out of the mountains once by an Explorer, and it was Mine. I radio'ed my buddy at the cabin and had him bring my 2002 exploder with the 4.6 out and yanked my butt off the trail and back to the cabin.

Yeah use it for what it was made for getting groceries!! Ya know now that you mention it getting Jeeps out is kinda like getting groceries, you can do it on every corner, But it's usually the womens job!!

 

[SplashMan]

You know, it is amazing. EVERY board I read has at one point or another had a Jeeper of some kind come on and bash/flame what ever vehicle that board is for and say how much better the Jeep is to anything... and people wonder why Jeepers have such a bad name. J.A.S. syndrome, never heard that one before, but it sure rings true.

I have wheeled with Jeepers, Xterras, Rangers, ZR2s(Blazers and S-10s), Zukis... you name it. Most of them where nice guys who just like to wheel and didn't care what I was wheeling, but the only bad comments or name calling I ever got was from Jeepers. Why? You would think the Chevy guys would have been the ones to do that, if anyone.

Someone said it up above somewhere, but who cares what you wheel/drive, as long as you enjoy doing it and are safe and courteous to the other guys out there on the trail.

 

[donkey boy]

Originally posted by 00sport
Yeah use it for what it was made for getting groceries!! Ya know now that you mention it getting Jeeps out is kinda like getting groceries, you can do it on every corner, But it's usually the womens job!!

BigCJ7 Would be interesting going wheeling with a well built CJ. They are rare. For telling you the truth: until now, all[i/] but one CJ I wheeled with left me pretty disapointed. Most of them flexed about as good as a 2002 Explorer with IFS and IRS, and unless locked, no matter how much lift, speed is their only option which normally leads to something breaking. Also the locked once always managed to break something.

To the CJ's defence, I have to say that:
- Most drivers of CJs are fairly young with few experience.
- Most CJ drivers prefere fun over finess; and most CJs are beaters by now. If nothing breaks, it wasn't fun.
- Many CJs were built, or spoilt, already by several different owners, on a limited budget, without too much previous wrenching experience.
- All CJs are old by now, and all old vehicles of whatever brand or make are more likely to leak, break or die.

But as Steve said: We all have a common hobby; let's all pull together and enjoy ourselves.

 

[RFR2212]

Originally posted by BigCJ7
I can tell you that my Jeep is better off road than ANY other vehicle I have driven, including the Explorer and the Mountaineer. I can't say much for it on the city streets or on the Hwy though....

Yeah, and exactly what all are the modifications done to your jeep?

 

[BigCJ7]

AMC 360 with the avenger off road carb, NP-435 tranny (6.7:1 first gear) Short Shaft Dana 300 with twin sticks and a 4:1 kit, solid axles and welded spider gears, dabout 6 inches of lift, Detroit TruTrac in front, custom drive shafts, Full Cage, Flat fendered and most of the rear half of the tub cut off, and several other things I don't have time to type. There others out here MUCH more built than mine, but mine is DEFINATLY built.
You guys go on and on about someone coming on here flaming, but it is just a return of what you guys were doing. How can someone with clear corners and chrome tow hooks talk trash?