• Register Today It's free! This box and some ads will disappear once registered!

Dreamr's 5.0 top end build up

Turdle

Lowrider
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 16, 2003
Messages
29,586
Reaction score
1,117
City, State
Humboldt, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
2000 Mounty
Here is how I got mine to hang lower
I followed BBK's adjustment procedure again

Close IAC adjustment all the way
Back off idle adjuster all the way
adjust in on idle adjust screw just until it makes contact, then 1 1/2 turn in
Adjust TPS to .89v
Start engine-- use IAC screw to achieve desired idle speed-readjust when it reaches operating temp.

Now, with a cam, you will get improvement if you drill a 1/8" hole in the throttle body plate.
 


Join the Elite Explorers for $20 per year. Gets rid of the ads! New $5 per month "try out" option.

Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create and save more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.




dreamr

Explorer Addict
Joined
October 5, 2003
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3
City, State
Lynnwood WA
Year, Model & Trim Level
99 XL / 4x4 / 4.0 ohv
Here is how I got mine to hang lower
I followed BBK's adjustment procedure again

Close IAC adjustment all the way
Back off idle adjuster all the way
adjust in on idle adjust screw just until it makes contact, then 1 1/2 turn in
Adjust TPS to .89v
Start engine-- use IAC screw to achieve desired idle speed-readjust when it reaches operating temp.

Now, with a cam, you will get improvement if you drill a 1/8" hole in the throttle body plate.



Hmm my tb does not have the IAC adjustment. Likely this is why I thought of the IAC plate when you started the Underhood bug thread. Perhaps I need to pick one up...... I seem to have everything else mostly ironed out. I am still getting the low idle code, but realistically I do not want the car to idle higher or it will pull on the breaks coming to a stop. This was an occasional problem with ~ 100 hp less (guestimate....TF estimates 350 @ crank on a stock bottom but I went a touch bigger on intake stuff than their test car).

I do have to go back in to adjust valves on I think cylinder 1 and 3 (stethescope game played here). I also seem to be leaking oil in the area of the rear driver side. It appears to be the head, but I can't see til I tear it down. That does not surprise me as it was assembled during a cold snap. A few complete warmups and they head bolts probably loosened up a bit and need re-torqued. Or the lower intake in that corner perhaps.......
 




Turdle

Lowrider
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 16, 2003
Messages
29,586
Reaction score
1,117
City, State
Humboldt, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
2000 Mounty
Hmm my tb does not have the IAC adjustment. Likely this is why I thought of the IAC plate when you started the Underhood bug thread. Perhaps I need to pick one up...... I seem to have everything else mostly ironed out. I am still getting the low idle code, but realistically I do not want the car to idle higher or it will pull on the breaks coming to a stop. This was an occasional problem with ~ 100 hp less (guestimate....TF estimates 350 @ crank on a stock bottom but I went a touch bigger on intake stuff than their test car).

I do have to go back in to adjust valves on I think cylinder 1 and 3 (stethescope game played here). I also seem to be leaking oil in the area of the rear driver side. It appears to be the head, but I can't see til I tear it down. That does not surprise me as it was assembled during a cold snap. A few complete warmups and they head bolts probably loosened up a bit and need re-torqued. Or the lower intake in that corner perhaps.......

I'll tell you what
I really don't think it helps on mine, for just this reason. My BBK throttle body has an IAC adjustment on it. I think this plate in place is a redundancy.
If you want, I'll take it off, and send it to you. ( if indeed this is so)
I am pretty sure SVO doesn't need it back.

I think it might help yours--
 




dreamr

Explorer Addict
Joined
October 5, 2003
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3
City, State
Lynnwood WA
Year, Model & Trim Level
99 XL / 4x4 / 4.0 ohv
I'll tell you what
I really don't think it helps on mine, for just this reason. My BBK throttle body has an IAC adjustment on it. I think this plate in place is a redundancy.
If you want, I'll take it off, and send it to you. ( if indeed this is so)
I am pretty sure SVO doesn't need it back.

I think it might help yours--

You all are to cool!

I would gladly give it a try....

Once I get the valve chatter gone and torques checked I really want to drive it :D

It seems a bit scary to have the idle hang up there, but I imagine the engine can co-operate around the neighborhood...... Now that it has cooled back down a bit I'll go tear into it......So on the valves that are still ticking......can I just go in and tighten them another 1/8 to 1/4 turn? Or do I once again need to roll under the car to turn it over again and again?
 




Turdle

Lowrider
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 16, 2003
Messages
29,586
Reaction score
1,117
City, State
Humboldt, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
2000 Mounty
You all are to cool!

I would gladly give it a try....

Once I get the valve chatter gone and torques checked I really want to drive it :D

It seems a bit scary to have the idle hang up there, but I imagine the engine can co-operate around the neighborhood...... Now that it has cooled back down a bit I'll go tear into it......So on the valves that are still ticking......can I just go in and tighten them another 1/8 to 1/4 turn? Or do I once again need to roll under the car to turn it over again and again?


Are you absolutely sure a rocker might not be tapping a valve cover, on the inside?
Seems to happen at #4 and #5==where do you hear the tappet?
do you have baffles inside the covers which hang low?

just curious
pm your address--ok?
 




dreamr

Explorer Addict
Joined
October 5, 2003
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3
City, State
Lynnwood WA
Year, Model & Trim Level
99 XL / 4x4 / 4.0 ohv
I am pretty sure that a rocker is not hitting anythng. I am using 1.6 rockers with a slightly taller than stock valve cover as well as TF's increased flange height.......all in all I should be fine, and there is no evidence of contact. Further more the noise is deffinately not a surface contact noise as it is present with the covers off and the car running. When I was playing with the stethescope I marked the spots on the valve cover with a marker where the sounds were loudest. When I popped the valve cover I lined it up and adjusted accordingly. I probably should have gone back through the process, but one was a bit looser than I remember, so I give it and the other potential culprits another 1/8 or more turn.


you have a PM :thumbsup:
 




dreamr

Explorer Addict
Joined
October 5, 2003
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3
City, State
Lynnwood WA
Year, Model & Trim Level
99 XL / 4x4 / 4.0 ohv
well now I new assembly went too easy, now it's the bugs.

Though I continue to tinker the above hanging idle is still present.

Overall idle is pretty smooth, but it shudders mildly now and again, though so do most cars......

The rear head bolt had looesened up so all were re-torqued.

valves ....well it gets quieter and quiter, but I still hear a bit of valvetrain noise :rolleyes:

oil leak.....so I thought I was just loosing a little from the aforementioned head.......turns out that if I would have looked under the car while it was runnng I would have found the culprit to be a bit broader in scope. There is a steady stream of drips running down the face of the tranny from somewhere....it is fresh clean motor oil as well so It is something I did somewhere. I suspect the rear seal on the oil pan and that the crank is fliging oil through the gap........although that is no easy task, it is the lesser of evils for sure!!!!! Once she cools down I'll start to investigate.......... perhaps it's time for a mechanic with a lift. With the limited access I had to the oil pan in the rear I am not sure I can get it much better.
 








Turdle

Lowrider
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 16, 2003
Messages
29,586
Reaction score
1,117
City, State
Humboldt, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
2000 Mounty
Naw
It may however allow unmetered air in thru PCV system.

Also, it might cause a mess!!
 




410Fortune

ICE Season
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
August 3, 2000
Messages
26,612
Reaction score
2,288
City, State
NORTH IDAHO, 7B
Year, Model & Trim Level
B2 "Slightly" Modified
Callsign
FOURTEN
yes if the crank case is not sealed it will effect your manifold vacuum, just like a PCV or dipstick tube missing, at least in my head it does :) Maybe I am mistaken?
I know its not good!

what happened did the gasket fall over or something?
 




Turdle

Lowrider
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 16, 2003
Messages
29,586
Reaction score
1,117
City, State
Humboldt, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
2000 Mounty
yes if the crank case is not sealed it will effect your manifold vacuum, just like a PCV or dipstick tube missing, at least in my head it does :) Maybe I am mistaken?
I know its not good!

what happened did the gasket fall over or something?

The PCV valve opens only at low vacuum-full throttle type situations,
An oil seal leak would allow air to be sucked in, instead of thru crankase breather--get it? It would be un metered--but not a vacuum leak.
 




410Fortune

ICE Season
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
August 3, 2000
Messages
26,612
Reaction score
2,288
City, State
NORTH IDAHO, 7B
Year, Model & Trim Level
B2 "Slightly" Modified
Callsign
FOURTEN
like I said you build the engines I'll help with everything else! hahaha
yes that makes sense
 




Turdle

Lowrider
Staff member
Moderator
Elite Explorer
Joined
June 16, 2003
Messages
29,586
Reaction score
1,117
City, State
Humboldt, KS
Year, Model & Trim Level
2000 Mounty
like I said you build the engines I'll help with everything else! hahaha
yes that makes sense

I am learning these things right along with you guys
we are the experts--I say this collectively.
Alone-we are nothing.
 




rookieshooter

Moderator Emeritus
Joined
March 13, 2005
Messages
7,293
Reaction score
1
City, State
Martinsburg WV
Year, Model & Trim Level
84 BII "Li'l Samson"
I am learning these things right along with you guys
we are the experts--I say this collectively.
Alone-we are nothing.

:thumbsup:
 




dreamr

Explorer Addict
Joined
October 5, 2003
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3
City, State
Lynnwood WA
Year, Model & Trim Level
99 XL / 4x4 / 4.0 ohv
Cool, In theory I knew there had to be something with air:D

The seal at the humped end of the pan had slipped out of it's groove during install. It is fixed though.

When I started it though the idle had dropped 200 rpm and the hanging idle had reduced in rpm as well as duration, thougth it is still present. Interestingly enough I am producing less vaccuum now but only by an inch.
 




dreamr

Explorer Addict
Joined
October 5, 2003
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3
City, State
Lynnwood WA
Year, Model & Trim Level
99 XL / 4x4 / 4.0 ohv
Hehe

Brenda and I got to go for her maiden voyage today........






Observations:

The hanging idle is a bit scary. I can not stop her easily unless I put her in neutral which in turn makes the rpm jump to 1800 :eek: Hopefully that IAC adjuster plate can correct this.

I think I am lacking in the go juice department.......she just doesn't feel all that responsive. Potentially a bit less than stock.... Obviously I did not really run her to see what the 3K and up feel like, but 1k-3k indicates I still have a lot of tuning to do...

So where do I start? I am not getting any detonation so I can feed in a nother degree or two of timing. Fuel is at 39psi (stock) should I go up a bit?
 




JDraper

Somewhat Functional
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
January 11, 2001
Messages
15,304
Reaction score
16
City, State
McVeytown, PA
Year, Model & Trim Level
'18 XLT
Hehe

Brenda and I got to go for her maiden voyage today........








Observations:

The hanging idle is a bit scary. I can not stop her easily unless I put her in neutral which in turn makes the rpm jump to 1800 :eek: Hopefully that IAC adjuster plate can correct this.

I think I am lacking in the go juice department.......she just doesn't feel all that responsive. Potentially a bit less than stock.... Obviously I did not really run her to see what the 3K and up feel like, but 1k-3k indicates I still have a lot of tuning to do...

So where do I start? I am not getting any detonation so I can feed in a nother degree or two of timing. Fuel is at 39psi (stock) should I go up a bit?

Depending upon the cam, heads and exhaust, you may not have gained much on the bottom end, but gained up top.

Where do you start? On a dyno!! You need to see what your a/f ratios are and what the torque and hp curves look like before you go much farther. If your a/f ratio is off, you can possibly damage the motor pretty quickly.

If you do put it on a dyno, the best way to get accurate a/f ratios is to get a bung welded into the exhaust in front of the cats and use a heated 02 sensor for measurements. A good dyno facility will know all this and hook you up right. Some of the 'lesser' facilities just use a tailpipe sniffer to do a/f, and that's not nearly as accurate as the heated 02 sensor.


On Edit...are you sure you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere? That would account for the hanging idle and low power...
 




dreamr

Explorer Addict
Joined
October 5, 2003
Messages
3,658
Reaction score
3
City, State
Lynnwood WA
Year, Model & Trim Level
99 XL / 4x4 / 4.0 ohv



On Edit...are you sure you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere? That would account for the hanging idle and low power...


I do need to do a dyno indeed... I just want to get it as close as possible beforehand.

As to vacuum leaks.....perhaps but I cannot find it. Vaccuum reading seem to be a bit on the low side, but I have as of yet not been able to find specs as to what to exspect with the cam in question. The propane test have shown nothing either.......

I ran the KOEO and KOER as well as cylinder balance again

KOEO was clear as was constant memory

KOER
12 idle high
13 idle low
25 no knock detected during dynamic self test
46 Thermactor diverter not functioning
54 .....I can't find this in my books

CYLINDER BALANCE
passed all three runs with even numbers

Timing is still odd to me.
Base is now at 14 But when I plug the spout connector back in it only jumps a few degrees rather than up to the ford spec 32-36. For some reason the CPU is not advancing the timing which could indeed account for my perceived power loss.....I really have no idea how to fix this...Any ideas
 




rookieshooter

Moderator Emeritus
Joined
March 13, 2005
Messages
7,293
Reaction score
1
City, State
Martinsburg WV
Year, Model & Trim Level
84 BII "Li'l Samson"
Dreamr I'm interested in knowing the cam's profile. Can you post when the intakes and exhaust opens and closes BTDC and ATDC. I'm mainly interested when the ex. valve closes and the intake opens during the exhaust stroke. I have had some really wild grinds on the bumpstick that I'd hardly had enough vacum for my brake booster. Now this was in the "Old days" when cams had funny sounding French names like "Supper La Garra Magnum" sp. LOL
 


Join the Elite Explorers for $20 per year. Gets rid of the ads! New $5 per month "try out" option.

Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see no advertisements, no banner ads, no double underlined links, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery, create and save more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.








Top