turdle's mounty moves on

[2000StreetRod]

CMP sensor

Other forum member have stated that their 5.0L will start and run (although poorly) with a bad or incorrectly timed camshaft position sensor. The PCM doesn't know when to open the injector for each cylinder and so the spray may not occur when the intake valve is opening. The result is a "stale" fuel charge in the intake port when the valve opens. My Haynes manual states that if the sensor connector is disconnected there should be at least 10 volts between the connector and ground when the ignition switch is in Run but the engine is not running. With the fuel system disabled and the connector connected to the sensor there should be 5 volt pulses when the engine cranks. If the +10 volt test passed but the +5 volt pulse fails then check the sensor ground path. If the ground path is good then replace the sensor.

 

[CDW6212R]

This is Jon's 98 truck right? Then the trans wiring should be unchanged yes? You want a 98+ 4R70W, but look out for the wiring changes of 1999.

 

[pufferfish]

the engine and trans are still in the 98. which connector is C118? there is one connector on the pass side and one at the gear selector arm. which one feeds the solenoids?

 

[Turdle]

If you are using the transmission in the mounty, I assure you there were no issues at all with it. It was fine. Something is amiss with wiring would be my guess.

 

[pufferfish]

yeah, its the original trans from Jon's truck. i know it can't be the trans itself. i drove the truck before tearing it all apart. i am going to dig into the wiring tonight.

 

[tmsoko]

Believe it was 1999.25 the trans wiring changed. From what I remember thought it was even a different connector, so doubt it would have been able to attach mis-matched harness/trans. But, that is going back only abotu 7 or 8 years since I last looked at those circuits.

From hearing the issue, I don't think it is the cam sensor. That is only there to tell the engine which cylce it is on. The crank sensor runs the injector timing. I was able to run my truck with the cam sensor even disconnected back when I was trying to figure out my issue (2 wire vs 3 wire) when I was gettin my 1997 engine to work with a 1999 PCM back in 2002. Something else is amiss I am affraid.

 

[pufferfish]

i don't think the cam sensor is part of the trans problem, but it is an issue i need to take care of before i drive the truck.

FWIW, my 97 blew up a cam sensor and when i replaced it, i put it in and set it. the truck idled like ass for a year before i figured out the cam sensor was less than 5 degrees off. i adjusted it and all has been good since. i assure you, from my experience and the experiences of others, getting the cam sensor set right is imparitive to the engine lasting. i have heard of people burning through pistons because of a mis-adjusted cam sensor.

 

[Turdle]

i don't think the cam sensor is part of the trans problem, but it is an issue i need to take care of before i drive the truck.

FWIW, my 97 blew up a cam sensor and when i replaced it, i put it in and set it. the truck idled like ass for a year before i figured out the cam sensor was less than 5 degrees off. i adjusted it and all has been good since. i assure you, from my experience and the experiences of others, getting the cam sensor set right is imparitive to the engine lasting. i have heard of people burning through pistons because of a mis-adjusted cam sensor.

Me too. In fact the guy I talked with from Wichita was so concerend he let me, a total stranger, borrow his tool. He shipped it here on his dime.

 

[CDW6212R]

Yes, these engines do not have a knock sensor. The cam synchronizer does alter the timing just like a distributor would, you can have it advanced or retarded. As you said, it needs to be right.

 

[pufferfish]

well, i was wrong. the cam sensor, EVAP and transmission issues were, indeed, a common problem. the Haynes manual screwed me again! the wiring diagram shows that the common 12v for the actuators included the cam sensor reference voltage. so, i tested continuity between the IAC, which i knew had 12v and the CMP, which i knew didn't. no continuity. so i basically ended up unsheathing the entire harness to find out there is a second power circuit. that same circuit powers the EVAP and - you guessed it - the trans solenoids. yeah, it was a fuse. all that BS for a fuse! i feel so dumb for not checking all the fuses, but i was lead to believe it was a wiring issue by Mr Haynes.

so, everything is functional now. no codes! no limp mode! i found this out at about 6pm last night, so i didn't have an opportunity to test drive it, but i am excited to do so! i need to get some datalogging done, so i can get Henson to do a proper tune on it. then, i need to finish the exhaust (tailpipes) before i move. the new house doesn't have the 220v sub-panel in the garage

 

[snoranger]

Congrats on finding the problem. Its too bad you had to go through all that work for a fuse.

I never trust Haynes or Chiltons. If I've got a big project, I buy the Ford EVTM. I got the last one (for my '01) for $8 off Ebay!!

 

[manaen]

the new house doesn't have the 220v sub-panel in the garage

Hey it sounds like that is your first order of business when you get moved in!..

Congrats on the fix, man I hate problems like that, makes you wanna club some seal puppies LOL...

 

[Spdrcer34]

First order of business in the new house....THROW AWAY THAT HAYNES!....2nd thing to do...add 220 to the Garage!

Ryan

 

[pufferfish]

i agree with the 220v, but my wife disagrees with its priority. she wants a kitchen remodel as #1...but, with the remodel planned, the electric range needs to be moved. a sub panel on the opposite side of the wall is probably in order. oh right! the other side of that wall is the garage! boohoohahaha! all a part of my evil plan!

 

[pufferfish]

so, i want drive this thing off a cliff! i don't have the time to deal with the crap this thing is pulling. i need this f-ing thing driveable. so, i took it for the first drive. it wants to die every time i let off the throttle. i have no codes. i filled the tank and set the fuel pressure to 42psi (figured it was a safe starting point). i was after a funny "sheet metal hitting something rotating" sound and looked through the driver side wheel well and saw the #8 plug wire insulation arcing to the dipstick tube. i pulled the insulation away from the tube and checked the connection to the plug. no more arcing, but i don't know how that would happen. the wires are brand new. the sound, however, pisses me off. its the dipstick hitting the crank. i don't know what to do about it. didn't have an opportunity to go on another test drive to see if the arcing was making it want to die. i will take it for a quick spin after work today. if that doesn't work, i am going to flash in the OEM tune and swap out the LMAF with the mustang's Pro-M (LMAF needs special tune to work, Pro-M doesn't). if that doesn't improve drivability, im going to set fire to the fcuker. i have way too much stuff to do to screw around with this thing and chase down endless gremlins.

on top of all this, the thing is way too loud...both the exhaust and the engine itself. those damn retrofit link bar lifters are the bane of my existance. they make so much noise that they seem like they are mis-adjusted...and they very well may be, but i can never tell. they were loud after having a pro shop adjust the preload! if i could, i would swap in some OEM lifters and be done with the noise. never actuall tried, but i understand that they don't fit in older 351w blocks.

 

[Turdle]

The only thing I can think of preventing the oem lifter guides from being used in the 351 is the width of the "spider spring" which holds them down.

How far does the dipstick tube need to enter the block? Can you identify where the interference is and trim or bend it a tad?

 

[tmsoko]

I feel your pain, as I have been there, but after reading this post I am rolflmao! funny ****!

let it sit a day, collect your thoughts and go back to it. The arcing could be a crack in the wire. Not the first time brand new parts would be faulty. The dipstick is very odd. Stock lifters will not work properly. The lifter bores in the old blocks are shorter than the new roller blocks.

Good luck.

 

[pufferfish]

actually, the spider is the same size for a 351w roller block (1994+) and a 302 block. the difference, supposedly, is the boss height around the lifter holes. from what i have read, it sounds like the "dog bones" are supposed to sit on the top of that boss at rest. in pre 94 351w blocks, the boss is too short?

when i was putting the engine together, i did have problems with where the dipstick sat relative to the crank. the hole is inline with the bearing cap and the dipstick tube directs the dipstick to collide with the cap. then it pushes off to one side or the other and hits the crank. what i did was bend the part of the tube that rotruded below the pan rail of the block and bent it down to direct the dipstick below the cap to keep it from moving fore or aft, thus preventing it from hitting the cap. in the bending of the tube to work around the headers, i must have messed up that little bend or turned the tube so that bend now directs the dipstick into the crank. who knows?

i was thinking of heading over to the pick-n-pull today to take a closer look at the explorer "dog bone" versions. they are a big plastic block. wonder ifthey would work with OEM lifters in my pre 94 block?

 

[pufferfish]

rolflmao? thats a new one for me. i know lmao, but whats rolf?

 

[pufferfish]

well, the plug wires were not the issue. it runs fine until the first time i apply any gas and then let off of it. then it tries to die. i tried going back to the stock tune. it wouldn't stay running, but i expected that. the LMAF isnt set up to run off a stock puter. i wanted to try it with my Pro-M, but the connectors are different. i have another idea though and if it wasn't raining today, i would try it out. i had a problem with my mustang dying at highway speeds after pushing in the clutch. turned out that the air filter was too low and ended up in the direct path of the air rushing under the car. i moved it up 3" and the problem stopped. in this case, i don't yet have a filter on (doesn't fit) and there is no inner fender well. i need to get a proper intake pipe on to allow the filter to fit. then i need to block the filter from the open wheel well. hope that improves my situation.