Project Vulture

[Lee's Automotive]

ok update, didnt seem to work it wouldnt accept it, but im running windows 7. will check with something running windows 10 sometime soon LOL

I'm running 11 on my custom-built rig and 11 on my editing laptop its free try it lol

 

[Fix4Dirt]

I'm running 11 on my custom-built rig and 11 on my editing laptop its free try it lol

you can upgrade? huh. ok ill see, i dont think the laptop is even supported yet lol

 

[Lee's Automotive]

you can upgrade? huh. ok ill see, i dont think the laptop is even supported yet lol

Stick with 10 if it has 7

 

[Lee's Automotive]

7 has been out of support since 2020

 

[DintDobbs]

@DemonMudder I'll plan on getting some pics, but probably no action shots... going solo. I'll run with whoever's running, somebody's sure to be out there. I hope it doesn't rain, but I always prepare for the worst!

@Fix4Dirt Thanks for all of your help and insight here; even if it doesn't end up solving my problem, it will be useful information for others to find in searches! I definitely appreciate the assistance of all the 2nd-gen owners during this project, it's been a fun 5 years and hopefully working out these last few wacky issues won't be the death of me!

So, the important things that remain are as follows:

1. Fix the DLC. Locate the disconnection and rewire accordingly. (Gah.)
2. Reprogram the GEM to correct the gear ratio discrepancy. (Expensive, but not hard if 1 is done first.)
3. Get that rusty rocker panel cut out and a better rocker panel welded in. (Been waiting on the junk yard for a month. Probably going to miss my appointment Monday.)
4. Attach a crash bar onto the front hitch receiver. (I want to be able to kill-streak deer.)

For #4, I'm sort of toying around with having a custom bumper bar fabricated that replaces the factory bumper, and also integrates into the hitch receiver - thing should be stinkin' invincible, without costing too much weight or clearance. I need to draw up designs. Not a priority though, this bar is really more to protect from other drivers than from trail damage. I don't go around hitting trees.

 

[DintDobbs]

Bit the bullet and had the plugs and wires replaced by a garage... I didn't want to risk breaking the stupid things and having to pay to get the Vulture towed to the garage, and then pay for the broken plugs to be extracted while I wait for an available slot to make an appointment. Yes, it cost a fat stack, but whatever, won't need to do that again for another several years. Life is too short to worry about money you could have saved, when you got what you wanted for less than the price you agreed on.

 

[donalds]

Couldn't agree more life is short

 

[DemonMudder]

Bit the bullet and had the plugs and wires replaced by a garage... I didn't want to risk breaking the stupid things and having to pay to get the Vulture towed to the garage, and then pay for the broken plugs to be extracted while I wait for an available slot to make an appointment. Yes, it cost a fat stack, but whatever, won't need to do that again for another several years. Life is too short to worry about money you could have saved, when you got what you wanted for less than the price you agreed on.

Man, when I did mine they were fine, mostly. Previous owner I think impacted the suckers on though, they all were incredibly too tight and one and even had to be retapped because they screwed with it. So I had to do exactly what you feared and have it towed to a shop to be retapped; probably would've been fine yourself, but I get not taking the chance on anything though.

 

[DintDobbs]

Well, the Vulture survived a 2-day outing in NC's Uwharries this week, sustaining minor body damage on the underside of both rear wheel arches (bashed the tires up under there a few times), as well as scraping the left lower control arm on the top of a rock. I'd consider this to be an ideal outcome.

Stopped at Eldorado Outpost. Not really my thing, ducked in, grabbed my passes, ducked out. Bought some Bigfoot merch for a relative.

The trails themselves were the opposite, however - the videos I've seen online don't do them justice. They are smaller, tighter, twistier, and steeper than I expected. Definitely a lot of fun to be had there. With my limited amount of rear flex, I stuck to the Easy/Moderate trails, which Nitto's aired down to 20-ish PSI on 5.13's ate for breakfast. Only once did I spin tires, and only used 4-low once for a test. If I had to give one singular most important piece of advice for wheeling, it is always air down.

The scenery was magnificent, if you're into forests and hills. Lots of ups and downs, very steep inclines, trees growing so close together you can't see anywhere off the trail.

Here's a pic of the Falls Dam trail head in the morning, with fog moving between the trees.

There's a big puddle on the other side of the fence.

It was probably shallow enough to drive through, but I didn't check the condition of the transmission vent tube before the trip, so I didn't play in the water... just in case.

 

[DintDobbs]

Got a flex shot for you IFS fans out there... Whee, look at all that articulation. I think the tire flexed as much as the suspension did.

Notice the upside-down weight rating sticker on the flipped hitch receiver. That thing did take a rock for me, on the Sawmill downhill run I believe it was. High speed or low speed doesn't really matter when you whack half a ton of steel down onto a radiator, so I was glad I put it on before the run.

Outcroppings higher than the roof, don't see those every day where I'm from.

Definitely a worthwhile experience, and will definitely plan on visiting there again, if I'm passing by the area. Some of the trails were a bit sketchy on the downhills, but even a stock truck with decent tires could do most of the trails I took. Hopefully I'll have have an other inch of lift on the rear by the next time I go that way, and may be bend the lip on the rear wheel arches up and under so I can tuck the tires in stead of bashing them. Both rear fender lips had paint missing from the tires scrubbing.

 

[DintDobbs]

There's three levels of "dark". There's new-moon-dark, there's forest-dark, and there's power's-out-hurricane-dark. This was definitely Level 2.

The wide-angled roof lights were very helpful in cornering. Lots of people put lights on the roof. Few people seem to comprehend the importance of being able to see around corners in the dark. I think I'll be putting some forward-facing lights on the roof bar at some time, because for seeing up and down hills or over rocks, the factory headlamp position is a bit low.

The forest is home to many creatures of the night. I heard the shrill yap of a red fox for the first time on this trip.

 

[DintDobbs]

After finding that my OxGord OBD-II scanner didn't work with Hazey either, and after running Hazey to half a dozen parts stores to play with their differing OBD-II scanners, I began to suspect that the OxGord scanner is its own problem. Ran The Vulture to Auto Zone to see if other tools can scan the codes... and surely enough, other scanners work just as they should. So my tampering seems to have been unnecessary - it didn't solve the OxGord problem, but other scanners still work. They probably never didn't work - but I had no other Explorer to test it on, then. Why the Dodge and Hyundai don't have this interfacing issue, I don't know, but I no longer recommend OxGord for 2nd-gen Explorer owners. Just a weird contact issue on this particular model's DLC, I guess.

As far as the matter of no continuity on certain pins on the DLC, goodness knows. May be I was doing some thing wrong during my tests the first time.

What this DOES mean, is that @Fix4Dirt 's helpful suggestions, tests, and other time spent in helping me to resolve this perceived problem, was probably unnecessary. Still, definitely appreciated, knowing that the ABS module can be accessed to modify some parameters.

With the DLC issues having been a figment of my imagination, based on faulty diagnostic equipment (why did I overlook this possibility?), this means my PCM reprogram to account for the regear is next on the list. This should reactivate ControlTrac's "auto" function, which is very extremely useful for driving on sand and gravel. Surprising how high-end sports cars took another 15 years to adopt electronic torque control technology like this, and many of those still rely on automatic braking to control torque, as opposed to mechanical torque application management. The ControlTrac was decades ahead of the rest of the automotive industry. We all thought the future these trucks held was the soccer moms' kids, but it took Ferrari until the 2010s to catch on to something Ford's SUV's were doing in the '90s. Whoa.

 

[Fix4Dirt]

After finding that my OxGord OBD-II scanner didn't work with Hazey either, and after running Hazey to half a dozen parts stores to play with their differing OBD-II scanners, I began to suspect that the OxGord scanner is its own problem. Ran The Vulture to Auto Zone to see if other tools can scan the codes... and surely enough, other scanners work just as they should. So my tampering seems to have been unnecessary - it didn't solve the OxGord problem, but other scanners still work. They probably never didn't work - but I had no other Explorer to test it on, then. Why the Dodge and Hyundai don't have this interfacing issue, I don't know, but I no longer recommend OxGord for 2nd-gen Explorer owners. Just a weird contact issue on this particular model's DLC, I guess.

As far as the matter of no continuity on certain pins on the DLC, goodness knows. May be I was doing some thing wrong during my tests the first time.

What this DOES mean, is that @Fix4Dirt 's helpful suggestions, tests, and other time spent in helping me to resolve this perceived problem, was probably unnecessary. Still, definitely appreciated, knowing that the ABS module can be accessed to modify some parameters.

With the DLC issues having been a figment of my imagination, based on faulty diagnostic equipment (why did I overlook this possibility?), this means my PCM reprogram to account for the regear is next on the list. This should reactivate ControlTrac's "auto" function, which is very extremely useful for driving on sand and gravel. Surprising how high-end sports cars took another 15 years to adopt electronic torque control technology like this, and many of those still rely on automatic braking to control torque, as opposed to mechanical torque application management. The ControlTrac was decades ahead of the rest of the automotive industry. We all thought the future these trucks held was the soccer moms' kids, but it took Ferrari until the 2010s to catch on to something Ford's SUV's were doing in the '90s. Whoa.

glad you got it maybe sorted out! still havent had a chsnce to try on a 10 laptop, so we shall see on that

 

[DintDobbs]

@Fix4Dirt Yeah, keep us posted on that, any additional info you discover could be really useful for somebody later.

 

[DintDobbs]

Welp, set up for the PCM flash for the 5.13's... Here's to hoping I don't roll over before next week! She needs an alignment again already (this is becoming an expensive habit!) but I'll push that off until I've had my fun for the season. May be I'd save money by just buying my own alignment rack at this point. The guys at the shop are always like, "What do you do to this thing?"

Still toying around with ideas for a gas can rack and a crash bar for the front. Noticed that the plastic bumper piece is cracked in a few places, so the priority on that bit just went up.

The rocker panel rust... I'm beginning to think about some alternative options, since I don't have anybody to cut the piece out of one the junk yard trucks. Probably going to have to dish out the dough for a fabrication job. That's gonna hurt the bank account.

 

[DintDobbs]

PCM flashed for 5.13 gears this morning at my regular Ford dealership. When I asked, the tech I dealt with said there was only one setting for the axle gearing, not separate settings for both axles, so there's that for anybody who didn't know. To reiterate for the ignorant, reflashing the PCM is necessary when regearing, to account for the ratio of drive shaft speed to wheel speed. If your final gear ratio is 3.73, that means that the drive shaft rotates 3.73 times for each time the wheel rotates once. (Actually, these ratio numbers are rounded to two decimal places; a 3.73 is actually a 3.725; a 5.13 is actually a 5.125, etc.)

I unplugged the battery after the flash, and discharged any residual current by turning the headlamp switch on. When I hit the highway, my 4-Hi and 4-Lo lights still flash 6 times, then wait about 2 minutes, then flash 6 more times, repeated indefinitely until the engine is stopped, as they did before. So, that leads me to believe that while the PCM reprogram was necessary in order to allow the Control Trac Torque-On-Demand to function correctly after the regear (check with any one who has ever regeared a Control Trac), the flashing 4x4 lights indicating a problem are in fact being triggered by some thing else. Which means, the TOD will not work, until that some thing else has been fixed.

My guess? I'm going to say that the VSS may have been repositioned or damaged when the regear was done. That's the only part of the electronics that should have been anywhere close to where the guys were working when they regeared; the front lift and front drive shaft were installed before the regear, and the Control Trac TOD still worked after the new front drive shaft was installed, leading me to believe that the hall effect sensors are not a part of the problem.

I've done plenty of research on the flashing 4x4 lights and associated TOD disable, and nearly every one comes back with one of these as the culprit:

- The shift motor is damaged or inoperable
- The hall effect sensors on the transfer case are dirty or damaged
- The vehicle speed sensor on top of the rear differential is dirty or damaged
- The #6 relay under the hood is damaged or loose
- The #4 30-amp fuse under the hood is blown or loose
- The #26 10-amp fuse by the driver's door is blown or loose
- The #27 15-amp fuse by the driver's door is blown or loose
- The wires behind the 4x4 control switch are broken or loose
- The relays in the black box above the gas pedal under the dash are damaged or loose
- The dimmer switch by the headlamp controls is damaged or broken

I checked out all the fuses and relays first, even though I already knew they weren't the problem, from reading the manual and from prior tests. All other electronics associated with those circuits function correctly - cabin lights, courtesy lights, power windows, moon roof, dimmer switch, no trouble ever in the life of the vehicle. The harness for the right wing mirror courtesy light looks melted, but it never didn't work.

I checked the hall effect harness and wires. It looks like I'm the first one to touch that sucker since it left the assembly line in '99, until to day. She might be due for a wash, but no issues came up when I changed the diff fluid when I bought the truck 5 years ago. I'm gonna say with a fair amount of confidence that this isn't the problem - but if I'm wrong, it absolutely had nothing to do with the regear, which was the singular last thing that happened to the truck the day that the 4x4 lights started flashing.

The condition of the shift motor was never in question, nor was the condition of the wires behind the 4x4 switch - verified the latter when I replaced the gauge cluster light bulbs. I've specified this in prior posts in this thread, but for anybody who was thinking about telling me that the six flashes indicate a problem with the shift motor and to check the wiring under the seat, don't bother. She shifts into and out of 4x4 high and low just like new, any and every time I tell her to. Just played with it earlier to day. TOD works any time the engine is started, as long as I keep it under 30 MPH. After 30 MPH, wait about 10 seconds and the disco lights come on.

So, with all that out of the way, that leaves only two options:

- VSS on top of rear diff
- Relays above the gas pedal

I'd almost put money that it's the VSS, even though the guys who did the regear claimed to have not messed with it. "Didn't get paid to mess with it" and "didn't smack it with some thing while doing some thing else" are two different games, in garage lingo.

 

[donalds]

PCM flashed for 5.13 gears this morning at my regular Ford dealership. When I asked, the tech I dealt with said there was only one setting for the axle gearing, not separate settings for both axles, so there's that for anybody who didn't know. To reiterate for the ignorant, reflashing the PCM is necessary when regearing, to account for the ratio of drive shaft speed to wheel speed. If your final gear ratio is 3.73, that means that the drive shaft rotates 3.73 times for each time the wheel rotates once. (Actually, these ratio numbers are rounded to two decimal places; a 3.73 is actually a 3.725; a 5.13 is actually a 5.125, etc.)

I unplugged the battery after the flash, and discharged any residual current by turning the headlamp switch on. When I hit the highway, my 4-Hi and 4-Lo lights still flash 6 times, then wait about 2 minutes, then flash 6 more times, repeated indefinitely until the engine is stopped, as they did before. So, that leads me to believe that while the PCM reprogram was necessary in order to allow the Control Trac Torque-On-Demand to function correctly after the regear (check with any one who has ever regeared a Control Trac), the flashing 4x4 lights indicating a problem are in fact being triggered by some thing else. Which means, the TOD will not work, until that some thing else has been fixed.

My guess? I'm going to say that the VSS may have been repositioned or damaged when the regear was done. That's the only part of the electronics that should have been anywhere close to where the guys were working when they regeared; the front lift and front drive shaft were installed before the regear, and the Control Trac TOD still worked after the new front drive shaft was installed, leading me to believe that the hall effect sensors are not a part of the problem.

I've done plenty of research on the flashing 4x4 lights and associated TOD disable, and nearly every one comes back with one of these as the culprit:

- The shift motor is damaged or inoperable
- The hall effect sensors on the transfer case are dirty or damaged
- The vehicle speed sensor on top of the rear differential is dirty or damaged
- The #6 relay under the hood is damaged or loose
- The #4 30-amp fuse under the hood is blown or loose
- The #26 10-amp fuse by the driver's door is blown or loose
- The #27 15-amp fuse by the driver's door is blown or loose
- The wires behind the 4x4 control switch are broken or loose
- The relays in the black box above the gas pedal under the dash are damaged or loose
- The dimmer switch by the headlamp controls is damaged or broken

I checked out all the fuses and relays first, even though I already knew they weren't the problem, from reading the manual and from prior tests. All other electronics associated with those circuits function correctly - cabin lights, courtesy lights, power windows, moon roof, dimmer switch, no trouble ever in the life of the vehicle. The harness for the right wing mirror courtesy light looks melted, but it never didn't work.

I checked the hall effect harness and wires. It looks like I'm the first one to touch that sucker since it left the assembly line in '99, until to day. She might be due for a wash, but no issues came up when I changed the diff fluid when I bought the truck 5 years ago. I'm gonna say with a fair amount of confidence that this isn't the problem - but if I'm wrong, it absolutely had nothing to do with the regear, which was the singular last thing that happened to the truck the day that the 4x4 lights started flashing.

The condition of the shift motor was never in question, nor was the condition of the wires behind the 4x4 switch - verified the latter when I replaced the gauge cluster light bulbs. I've specified this in prior posts in this thread, but for anybody who was thinking about telling me that the six flashes indicate a problem with the shift motor and to check the wiring under the seat, don't bother. She shifts into and out of 4x4 high and low just like new, any and every time I tell her to. Just played with it earlier to day. TOD works any time the engine is started, as long as I keep it under 30 MPH. After 30 MPH, wait about 10 seconds and the disco lights come on.

So, with all that out of the way, that leaves only two options:

- VSS on top of rear diff
- Relays above the gas pedal

I'd almost put money that it's the VSS, even though the guys who did the regear claimed to have not messed with it. "Didn't get paid to mess with it" and "didn't smack it with some thing while doing some thing else" are two different games, in garage lingo.

I suppose you could wack that VSS with the ring gear when you put it together
Only other thing I can think of is the tone ring for the sensor was never installed or installed backwards
Pull the sensor and stick your pinky in the hole you should be able to feel the little nubi teeth of the tone ring

 

[DintDobbs]

@donalds Will attempt at next convenience; interrupted my work flow on The Vulture to get a quote on paint for Hazey's roof.

What do you do to get the VSS out, is it threaded or locked at all, or do you just pull it? I didn't find any concrete answer to this for the 97-01's. I don't want to break the thing getting it out, even if it's nonfunctional, because extraction isn't my game... not that I haven't extracted broken fasteners before.

 

[donalds]

On my truck is on top of the rear differential held down by one 10 mm bolt the o ring kind of holds it in there pretty good so wiggle it out players may be needed
Some years have it in the transfer case
that info is easy to find held on the same way if I recall

 

[DintDobbs]

@donalds Thanks, I appreciate that. I know the VSS on the 97-01's is on top of the rear diff, just wasn't sure what held it in (couldn't see above the axle, and it's not safe to stick your head where it will be cracked like an egg if your Hi-Lift slips). I didn't think of it at the time, but I could have used my phone camera as a "mirror" to see around the corner... Doh!