Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[2000StreetRod]

vacuum gauge?

Do you have a simple vacuum gauge? If so, I suggest removing the catch can filter and connecting the vacuum gauge in its place. Then check for vacuum with the engine cranking/running. Without the PCV check valve I suspect you're pulling air from the atmosphere thru the catch can filter which flows directly to the main intake downstream of the MAF sensor.

 

[Dono]

Here's another crude drawing of the oil system.
-The check valves were added so that when the motor (or scavenge pump) isn't running the oil won't back up in the turbo causing smoking at startup.
-The AN10 line and scavenge pump is below the bottom of the turbo to ensure that the oil will never back up in to the turbo.
-The pump is driven off a relay on the fuel pump circuit. I also have my led boost gauge on the same circuit so that if my boost gauge isn't lit, I know my pump is not on. Its right in front of me on the steering column. Later I may add a buzzer that goes off when the boost gauge looses power.
-So for there has been no oiling issues at all, this seems to be a solid solution.

 

[Dono]

Do you have a simple vacuum gauge? If so, I suggest removing the catch can filter and connecting the vacuum gauge in its place. Then check for vacuum with the engine cranking/running. Without the PCV check valve I suspect you're pulling air from the atmosphere thru the catch can filter which flows directly to the main intake downstream of the MAF sensor.

I could always add a one way check valve at the filter so that if there is any chance of creating vacuum the check valve closes (I'd prefer some vacuum on the bottom end wherever possible). I just don't see how this can flow to the main intake? Doesn't the pcv valve go to the bottom end, along with the oil fill neck? I didn't think this goes in to the intake at all.

 

[2000StreetRod]

turbo lubrication

Here's another crude drawing of the oil system.
-The check valves were added so that when the motor (or scavenge pump) isn't running the oil won't back up in the turbo causing smoking at startup.
-The AN10 line and scavenge pump is below the bottom of the turbo to ensure that the oil will never back up in to the turbo.
-The pump is driven off a relay on the fuel pump circuit. I also have my led boost gauge on the same circuit so that if my boost gauge isn't lit, I know my pump is not on. Its right in front of me on the steering column. Later I may add a buzzer that goes off when the boost gauge looses power.
-So for there has been no oiling issues at all, this seems to be a solid solution.

That's an excellent design Don and the light is a clever idea. Since the scavenge pump is powered via the fuel pump relay you don't have to worry about the engine running for more than a few seconds if power is lost to the scavenge pump. I think I've read some articles advocating cooling the turbo for a short time after the engine is shut off but Volvo didn't do that on my wagon. My turbo is cooled with engine coolant and lubricated with engine oil. Since the engine uses a mechanical water pump coolant flow stops when the engine stops running. I've always been concerned about leaking turbo seals and the possibility of coolant and oil intermixing. Fortunately, you don't have that worry.

Jakee also used the oil filler cap for his return. As I recall he had problems with leaks with the first installation.

Below is a photo of the improved one that didn't leak.

How is the turbo return oil prevented from entering the PCV connection at the oil filler cap?

 

[Dono]

"How is the turbo return oil prevented from entering the PCV connection at the oil filler cap? "
I'm concerned about this. All I did was make sure the PCV connection hose runs up from the oil fill neck. This may become a problem. I tried attaching a hose to the other end of the oil fill cap to get the oil to drain past the vent line, but the oil fill neck just isn't large enough. I'll have top keep an eye on this once I actually get the truck running.

so far, the only oil leak I noticed from this was when I wasn't thinking and left my quick connect off and started the motor after changing my oil. Oil everywhere. That's what I get for not paying attention to the task at hand.

 

[CDW6212R]

That crankcase ventilation system is just about the same as the original type OEM used, a simple vent hose leading to the atmosphere. You do have the catch can with a filter of some kind, so it's no harm to the environment.

That isn't ideal in any case, the boost should create pressure inside the crankcase, which you want to remove for two reasons.

First, boost is bad for the engine to have too much in the crankcase.

Mainly though the boost hurts power by resisting the piston movement from the bottom side. If you can create a vacuum in the crankcase, you will gain some tangible RWHP, measurable.

I believe that setup you have now will get you going. I suggest later considering adding vacuum to the crankcase, with a vacuum pump mounted in place of the bottom right idler pulley(where the old Mustangs had the air pump).

 

[2000StreetRod]

pcv system

I pulled out my 2000 workshop CD to learn about your engine PCV system.
It looks like the PCV valve is coolant heated.

The heater hoses are attached to the water heater tube which I haven't found a drawing of yet. Unfortunately, I searched thru the entire shop manual and didn't find any more information on the PCV system.

 

[Dono]

yes, there are 2 coolant hoses that go to the upper intake. Apparently that is to reduce chances of moisture and possible freezing. I leave mine hooked up, but vroomzoomboom has his bypassed since he rarely drives his truck in the winter. Im surprised the manual would call them pcv heater hoses.

The pcv valve is located right at the very back, middle of the lower intake. see the pcv valve location (circled in red).

 

[CDW6212R]

I pulled out my 2000 workshop CD to learn about your engine PCV system.
It looks like the PCV valve is coolant heated.
View attachment 79644
The heater hoses are attached to the water heater tube which I haven't found a drawing of yet. Unfortunately, I searched thru the entire shop manual and didn't find any more information on the PCV system.

The 302 PCV system just has multiple hoses, two leading to the upper intake for vacuum sources, and one from the TB location to the crankcase. The coolant is not attached to the system, they go through the two metal pipes along the right side of the lower intake.

Don removed the two vacuum sources, so the PCV doesn't need to meter(restrict) the airflow now. The crankcase gases are free to move in and out now, by way of the catch can.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

later SOHC's had a "heated" pcv on them (just to coolant lines wrapped around it" for like don said, to prevent it from freezing up. 5L's didnt have that. the two coolant lines as don mentioned on mine are just ran back into a loop for the EE supercharger kit. they didnt make a prevision for it

 

[Dono]

So, I have the header back. Glenn struggled with welding the 'paper', as he put it. He cut the collector off, welded from the inside, then welded the collector back on. He added a bunch of reinforcing where he could. Apparently it might not be perfect due to the $!+@ he had to work with, but it looks pretty good.
I think the collectors might be weak and prone to cracking (after listening to Glenn rant for a while).
I'll start on replacing the header, switching injectors, and spark plugs tomorrow.

 

[2000StreetRod]

good news!

I'm glad you've the headers back. I considered replacing my exhaust manifolds but they flow pretty well and I never liked the pinging sound of aftermarket headers or how quickly they rust. We're all anxious to hear how things go when you get things back together.

 

[4pointslow]

Pcv

Dono,
Your pcv system will not effect A/F now, good job looking into it, customizing it and Explaining your design to us.
Did you pull the pcv screen out below the rubber grommet in the lower intake?
I would, they are a source of clogging on the normal system.
What size is the vent on the catch can by the way?
During wide open throttle there is no vacuum so pressure builds up in the stock system anyway.

 

[4pointslow]

power steering

I want to know where that power steering reservoir came from. Mine is ugly.

 

[Dono]

The vent uses a 3/8 line. It's one that goes on a valve cover.
I didn't know there was a screen under the pcv valve, so I'll try to get it out when I pull the upper intake tomorrow. Thanks for the tip. There may not be enough venting, I really have no idea yet.

Tonight I did manage to get the threads chased on the header collector flange (I like to think I learn from my mistakes once in a while) and wrap the header. This time I wrapped less of the header to give me more room to tighten bolts.

I'm hoping to get a good day in tomorrow.

 

[Dono]

exhaust leak fixed!!! Yay! That went on way to long.
New plugs in.
Ran the truck with factory tune and datalogged to confirm all was good. A/F ratio looked great on the wideband so I know the wideband works.

Ran the truck with factory everything except for the new tune James sent me. Surprisingly enough it ran. I datalogged that also. This confuses me. I wouldn't think the truck would have ran at all.

Then, I ran the truck with turbo tube plugged in and slot maf plugged in. Truck wouldn't start. No surprise.

I confirmed my slot maf pigtail extension work was ok. Im certain its perfect. Soldered and heat shrink tubing used also.

Once the motor cools, Ill tackle the injectors and see where I land.

 

[Dono]

It Lives!
Slot Maf and injectors are playing nice.
I was able to get an excellent log.

I'll email it to James, and we can finally get started on tuning.
Now the fun starts.

 

[jd4242]

Woohoo..great job. Now the fun starts!!

 

[2000StreetRod]

congratulations Don!

I just returned home and started reviewing the datalogs. I notice it didn't take long for you to hit 3,000 rpm using James' open loop tune. I suspect the plugs were the main problem but don't know why they looked so bad in such a short time. You may encounter some problems when you allow the PCM to run closed loop. But the main thing now is to let James tune the fuel. I suggest that you change your Analog 2 equation so lambda is displayed instead of AFR. That will make it much easier to compare the commanded mixture (STFT) to the actual. Way to go! I'm excited for you!

 

[2000StreetRod]

running rich

This is what I got with just a quick look:
1000 rpm, 13% rich
1200 rpm, 15% rich
2000 rpm, 7% lean
2925 rpm, 7% rich
Not bad at all and very easy for James to correct. I suspect he will give you one more open loop tune to get within a few % of correct and then switch back to closed loop for more accuracy. How many miles are there on your narrowband O2 sensors?