Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

As some of you know, I am working on building a parts list for a shortened Dana 44, long radius arm with coil overs SAS. 5:13 gears to match my rear axle and an ARB, maybe an electric locker. I have a pretty good list so far. At the same time, I am going to swap out the rear drum brakes for discs off of a 99 Explorer.

Please note: The plan is to keep this project as simple as possible with mostly off the shelf parts. I am not a fabricator, just a decent welder with a what I would consider the minimum required tools (chop saw, cut off wheels, air tools, welder, etc.), who likes doing his own work. Your opinions are welcome, but what I really need is technical advice. I have been thinking about this for several years and now have the time and cash to make it happen. Please keep on topic with your advice and don't go off on a side track about how you would do it as a four-link, or caged arms, or leave the axle full-width because that is not what I want. I want a simple-ish set up that works.

 

[BKennedy]

What do you folks think of this 8.8 truss kit from Barnes? It looks like it would be a fairly easy install, its low profile so wouldn't interfere with anything above the axle. It also looks like I could easily reroute the brake lines and park brake cable to the top of the truss without disconnecting anything. The price is excellent as well at $135.00.

Pro Series Ford 8.8 Axle Truss

The Barnes 4wd Ford 8.8 truss is one of the strongest on the market, fabricated from our 1/4" steel and made to last a lifetime! The truss is a one piece design to make installation a breeze and to reduce the amount of welding, this truss has been designed to be as low profile as possible in...

www.barnes4wd.com

Only problem I can see is how do I make sure my axle tubes are perfectly straight before welding this on? After being beat on for 25 years it wouldn't surprise me if they were a little tweaked.

 

[tdavis]

The red neck in me says, get the truss kit, see if it aligns up.. if so, your close enough.

If not, the only true way to determine trueness of the housing is get a precision rod, and the pucks that fit in the axle ends.

Strip it down, remove the carrier, place the rod and pucks - you'll know how much it's out in a few seconds.

Another possible idea - strip the axle down to just the housing, place a string from one end to the end, centered on the axle tube.

Measure the inside offset (how far the string is off-center of the tube) on both sides of the carrier, that will tell you how far out it is.

 

[gmanpaint]

I would say that is really a bridge at 31" long, and not a full truss. If your tubes are off a little, it won't matter the least bit.

A full truss might show any tube bend, but even then, after it's welded on, the Truss will only strengthen the entire assembly anyways.

I have a full truss, and it's 49" long. Just send it, and forget it.

 

[BKennedy]

I was looking for a simple truss for a while. Just something to strengthen the axle overall without adding a lot more weight or taking up too much space. I think I'll order it and get around to installing it in a few weeks to a month.

The red neck in me says, get the truss kit, see if it aligns up.. if so, your close enough.

If not, the only true way to determine trueness of the housing is get a precision rod, and the pucks that fit in the axle ends.

Strip it down, remove the carrier, place the rod and pucks - you'll know how much it's out in a few seconds.

Another possible idea - strip the axle down to just the housing, place a string from one end to the end, centered on the axle tube.

Measure the inside offset (how far the string is off-center of the tube) on both sides of the carrier, that will tell you how far out it is.

You have redneck in you, really?? Maybe a pocket protector and taped together glasses, but redneck?

Not going to do all that because if I strip it down I risk tearing the axle seals on the Yukon 8.8 eliminator kit, which would mean I would have to get new seals, bearing and retainer, cut them off, and press on a new set. No thank you. I guess if its not bent enough to wear out the seals, it ain't bent.

I would say that is really a bridge at 31" long, and not a full truss. If your tubes are off a little, it won't matter the least bit.

A full truss might show any tube bend, but even then, after it's welded on, the Truss will only strengthen the entire assembly anyways.

I have a full truss, and it's 49" long. Just send it, and forget it.

Copy that.

 

[Stic-o]

If you want to just build a axle, I have a disc brake axle attached to those wheels you want.....just saying.

 

[Kirby N.]

If it’s not leaking or wearing tires funny o would say it is straight enough…

I did the artec truss. It’s wider and bolts to the pinion dampener bolts. A little more work but a lot more piece of mind.

 

[BKennedy]

This one also bolts to the pinion dampener bolts

 

[stephen93Eddie]

what rates and or valving did you get for the radflos?

 

[BKennedy]

Sorry, I haven't even looked at my own build thread in a while.

Sorry, but I don't remember what valving I got for the Radflo's. The springs are a triple rate set up but I don't remember the rates or lengths. I think they were 200x12" lower and 300x14" uppers, but I'm probably wrong. The springs and rates are in this thread somewhere towards the beginning when I got the original FOA shocks.

I'm still kicking around the truss and rear anti-sway bar purchases. I am probably going to get the sway bar soon because the last trip to Arizona showed me I still think I need one.

While I was there, I noticed a new clunk I could feel through my feet in the front suspension. It was only when it compressed or rebounded more than highway type driving. I used a pry bar and went around the front suspension and the only thing I noticed was the driver side radius arm bushings between the head unit (this is the name Duff gives to the part of their radius arms that mount to the axle) and the arm itself were easier to push around than the passenger side. Since they have been in there since 2013, I figured they were overdue for replacement anyways and ordered them. I got around to swapping them out today. Man, what a pain. I put the front axle on jack stands, and put my large jack stands under the sliders to take some weight off the front axle and removed the tires. I removed the driver side bolts and pushed the axle forward slightly and the arm slid right off the bushings, all good. The bushings were shot, with all four worn completely through on one side so I am fairly certain this was the new clunk.

I cleaned up the area, greased the bushings and the areas they will make contact and installed them onto the head unit. I used a ratchet strap to pull the axle back into place but could not get the bolts all the way through the radius arm. The bushings at least on my arms have quite a bit of pre-load on them and when the rod end side isn't bolted into place the arm is about one foot inside the mount. I was hoping I would not have to remove the rod end to get the bolts in, but no dice. I had to unbolt that giant rod end bolt, then drop that side of the axle so the arm would clear my skid plates to get it to swing in enough to line up the tabs. Finally got the head unit side bolted up, then had to line up the rod end side by using the ratchet strap again to pull the axle back and then using a big pry bar to get it lined up while trying to run in my impact on the bolt head, all the while hoping the spacers don't fall out. I was also having trouble with my Rigid impact, seems like the trigger is giving out and it only engages sometimes. Gave up for the day with one side done. Before I posted here, I ordered the new Rigid impact that is much stronger than what I have currently. When I go to pick up the new one, I will turn in my old one for repair as they have a lifetime warranty.

I keep thinking every time I am working on any of my vehicles how much easier it would be if I had a lift. I am not doing much work on them these days until I can get my house/shop built in AZ because its going to have a 2-post lift. I have a whole list of stuff to do on just about every vehicle that I am putting off until the shop is built.

 

[Kirby N.]

That rigid warranty is only good if you have a receipt/ registration. I have had some frustration with them.

My dad just got a 2 post lift. Haven’t got it installed but I am stoked to use it.

 

[BKennedy]

With the Rigid stuff, you have to register it after purchase. Then your set. I have returned a battery so far and all I did was take it to HD and they gave me a new one. It was 2 years old.

 

[Kirby N.]

Yeah I smoked my dads drill that I got him. I found the receipt but apparently if you don’t register they have a shorter warranty. The drill was barely out of that warranty. I also discovered that rigid and riobi are the same company. My makita stuff had endured lots of abuse with no issues. I started my dad in the rigid eco system for the warranty- and then there is this hassle. I regret it. Wish I would have put him in makita or Milwaukee.

 

[BKennedy]

@Kirby N. Do you have to pull your radius arms out at the rear to line them up with the mount? When the front is bolted to the axle, and the head unit bushings are in so the main part of the arm is mounted to the head unit, the arms are about one foot inside the mount location under the frame rails. I have to pull them outward to line them up with the mount. It puts pre-load on the side of the bushings, which is right where wore out. I really can't complain about them that much since they have been in there for 8 years of off-road driving, but it seems like they should line up better.

I was thinking about bending the mount tabs at the front of the arms so the rear mount lines up and takes the stress off the bushings. I am going to call Duff later today before I install the passenger side and ask them what they think.

 

[BKennedy]

Called Duff and they don't even answer their phone anymore, rang about 25 times then disconnected. I guess they decided they were too busy for personal customer service. I had to leave an email with tech support. I'm going to see if I can bend the tabs about 1/4" to help take the side pressure off the bushings.

Edit: I pulled both arms off, bent the tabs over about 1/4" with a giant adjustable wrench, cleaned up the holes with a step drill and reinstalled. This time, they were only a few inches inside the rear mounts and moved over with ease. I waited until I had the rear rod end bolted in place on both arms before I tightened the bushing bolts. I don't know if it did any good, but it appears the tabs are more aligned with the head unit now.

Never got a return email or call from Duff

 

[Kirby N.]

Yes I have to pull mine out a little - but only about an inch. Another remedy would be to put the arms in a harbor freight hydraulic bender and bend them a little. I did that with some radius arms I built for a buddies bronco

 

[BKennedy]

I tried to use my 20 ton press to straighten out the tabs a little bit but I couldn't figure out a way to stabilize the arm in the position it needed to be in the press.

I went for a long drive today. Wasn't planning on it, but I had the Explorer out for a test drive to go watch my kid ride her horse. She's training him in FEI now, the highest series of dressage levels. The wife's sister was over and they were doing girl stuff so I went for a drive after Sarah's lesson. Up to Ramona, then Pamo Valley, up Black Mountain Truck Trail and out through Mesa Grande to home. Its about 100 miles, 35 of it in the dirt. Trail is what I would consider very easy, with long, steep grades and tight turns, few bumps here and there. You need to pay attention because the drop would be fatal in most places.

As soon as I backed it into the street I heard / felt the bump. Its a little more refined now, but its still there. Right through my feet, not the seat or wheel, just my feet. That makes me think its coming from the driver side radius arm because it terminates under my feet. Those head unit bushings were shot, but I think now that they have been replaced its just making the noise different. I am thinking its a sticky rod end, or maybe the wedgie bushing on the driver side is worn through. I am going to lube all the rod ends. I checked all the rod ends and they are all tight, but maybe one is sticking. It feels like a worn bushing and it only does it when there is sudden suspension movement in the dirt, or when going through a corner on the highway and there is weight transfer. There is nothing wrong with the way the suspension moves so there is no binding, as far as I can tell.

Do those wedgie bushings wear out? I have had those in there since a little after I did the SAS and was adjusting caster angles. I can't remember if there are 4* or 7* bushings in there now.

Now that I think it about while writing, it might be a body mount. I replaced them very recently with poly mounts and there is one right in that area. Maybe it loosened up a little. Have to check that. I can get to the bolt without too much trouble so I will give it a bump with the impact and see if it goes away.

 

[Stic-o]

Let me know when you want to run up to Big Bear, Holcomb and John Bull. Preferably before it snows. Been to long.

 

[gmanpaint]

Just throwing this out there, but have you checked your trans mount?

 

[BKennedy]

Just throwing this out there, but have you checked your trans mount?

Not yet. I thought of that, but they are all newish and very solidly built. Maybe one of them loosened up and its shifting, that's possible. I fab'd it myself and the trans mount is actually part of the adaptor between the 700R4 and the Atlas. Its bolted to a plate with thick poly puck type bushings, two under the mount and one off to the side to act as a torque arm. I will check them after I check the body mounts.

The bushing you can see is the top bushing, the other set is inside the cross member in sleeved recesses. The bolts cannot come out because the skid plate is attached to the bottom of the cross member and covers them up, but they could loosen a little.

 

[gmanpaint]

Since the atlas install, I have managed to ruin 2 trans mount bushings. Granted, mine is nothing like yours, but rubber is rubber. That thump you describe, is how I know it's shot. LOL