Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

As some of you know, I am working on building a parts list for a shortened Dana 44, long radius arm with coil overs SAS. 5:13 gears to match my rear axle and an ARB, maybe an electric locker. I have a pretty good list so far. At the same time, I am going to swap out the rear drum brakes for discs off of a 99 Explorer.

Please note: The plan is to keep this project as simple as possible with mostly off the shelf parts. I am not a fabricator, just a decent welder with a what I would consider the minimum required tools (chop saw, cut off wheels, air tools, welder, etc.), who likes doing his own work. Your opinions are welcome, but what I really need is technical advice. I have been thinking about this for several years and now have the time and cash to make it happen. Please keep on topic with your advice and don't go off on a side track about how you would do it as a four-link, or caged arms, or leave the axle full-width because that is not what I want. I want a simple-ish set up that works.

 

[BKennedy]

 

[BKennedy]

COILOVER QUESTION:

I noticed that I don't have enough pre-load on the springs prior to the trip. I limited the droop so the retaining plate would stay in place for Truckhaven. Dave's Off Road Supply says I need lighter springs to get the correct pre-load, but I liked how the rate felt on the trail, and the highway. So, can I get 2" longer and 50 pound lighter upper springs and keep the heavier lower springs? Would having a 16", 300 pound lower, and a 14" 200 pound upper be too much of a weight differential? The upper retaining plate is now 2" down from the start of the threads. If I went with a longer and lighter upper spring, would it allow me to get the correct pre-load and keep the length?

Or, which is probably what I am going with;
I can put in a triple rate setup with the helper spring, which would keep the springs I have and like, and solve my problem.

 

[BKennedy]

I went with the helper springs, ordered them today. With the FOA shocks, you don't have to take them completely apart to get the helper spring installed. You can unscrew the stop ring off the bottom, put the helper springs on, and screw the stop ring back into place.
Also found a direct replacement Spicer slip yoke boot for the front drive shaft. Bought the metal today to redo the track bar frame mount, and the transmission cross member. I was lying under the Explorer today going through the cross member redo in my head so I have a pretty good handle on it. There is no way the drive shaft can contact the exhaust Y pipe with the transfer case clocked down. There should be no binding as the drive shaft will be at a slight downward angle towards the axle. It will still be able to sit just about even with the bottom of the frame and should be partially protected by the radius arms/mounts.

 

[Kirby N.]

Looks sweet man! Sounds like you did good! lets see more action shots!

 

[BKennedy]

 

[RockRanger]

Looks like it turned out great. When does Sarah get to drive?

 

[BKennedy]

Looks like it turned out great. When does Sarah get to drive?

She already drove it all over the desert last weekend. It flexes better than my buddy's J^&p with the Rubicon Express long travel kit.

Still need to do a bunch of stuff, but having it back in the garage, and knowing it is going to work very well, is a great relief.

Most of you already know how much fun it is to drive around NOT lifting tires very often. Like Dave (DB1) said, its "point and shoot" now. Don't have to worry about picking the perfect line anymore.

 

[FR-425]

It is a very nice rig indeed.

Glad I got to see it in person.

You've made very wise design choices that have resulted in a truck that is very stable, looks right, works right. Tight & Clean!

You are going to do some more aggressive testing in Moab, yes?

 

[BKennedy]

What I really like is taking a 38 year old axle housing, sticking it under a 20 year old SUV and making an entire new rig.

 

[kanuck15]

Imagine what you could do with 10 year old parts!......... oh wait? they suck lol

 

[BKennedy]

I am doing a re-do on the track bar frame mount. The drag link is at a 3 degree angle so I am trying to match that. The only problem is the track bar mount bolt hole needs to be 4.5" from the bottom of the frame to get the same angle. That is a lot of distance and leverage for a track bar frame mount. It looks like everything will clear with it there. I can brace it to the engine cross member with some 1" .120 wall DOM I picked up. I can also go off the original track bar mount, overlapping it so it pushes the mount back 1/4" to line it up better, and make the mount very sturdy (1/2" thick for 2/3 of its length). I know these SAS's are all a little different, but that seems like a lot of drop.
New track bar frame mount :

It will be plated on both inside and outside, the outside nearly the entire length with 1/4" flat bar.

 

[Kirby N.]

Most of you already know how much fun it is to drive around NOT lifting tires very often. Like Dave (DB1) said, its "point and shoot" now. Don't have to worry about picking the perfect line anymore.

Give it time and you will find yourself on stuff you have to pick the perfect line again, only this time it will just be much rougher than before! At least for me, point and shoot got boring so I found myself wheeling rougher stuff. Even the guys in buggys have to drive well and pick lines. I will tell you what though, driving my TTB on trails sure built some driving skill I would have been hard pressed to build on a longer travel more capable rig- short travel makes you understand wheel placement and wheelbase.

 

[james t]

Your track bar mount should be good to go if you brace it the way you described.

 

[BKennedy]

Thanks.
Now, should I put it directly under the frame rail as in the cardboard mock-up, or outboard a little to have a longer track bar?
If I shorten the track bar up a little, it will be less than 2" longer than the drag link (good).

Will it matter if the track bar is at 4 degrees and the drag link is at 3? I want them to be as aligned as possible, but it means nearly 3/4" more bracket to get them even. I think I might have clearance issues with the tie rod if I go any lower. I thought about replacing the pitman arm for a shorter unit, partly because I noticed a few scratches on the top of the tie rod from the cotter pin of the drag link/pitman arm bolt, but I am limiting the compression travel another inch on the driver side anyway (big time fender rub, shock bottoms out before the bump stop, and axle nearly contacts frame). If I get a shorter pitman arm, the drag light might be too short, and it will increase the angle dramatically.

I might be answering my own questions, but I think my goal should to get everything as close as possible without having anything bind.

 

[BKennedy]

Give it time and you will find yourself on stuff you have to pick the perfect line again, only this time it will just be much rougher than before! At least for me, point and shoot got boring so I found myself wheeling rougher stuff. Even the guys in buggys have to drive well and pick lines. I will tell you what though, driving my TTB on trails sure built some driving skill I would have been hard pressed to build on a longer travel more capable rig- short travel makes you understand wheel placement and wheelbase.

I started off roading the Explorer when it was stock. You are right on that no lockers and no travel makes you a better driver. Already did all that though. Went through a long progression to get to this point:
2.5" Rancho lift (Stock Gears, 31" tires).
4" Superlift "Supperrunner" lift (Powertrax, No-Slip rear locker and 4:10 gears, 32" tires).
5.5" Superlift that came out of Paul B's front suspension and was modified with heavier radius arm tabs and the Superrunner steering system (5:13 gears, 35" tires, ARB front locker).
No-Slip blew so bad it had to be cut out of the carrier, new Detroit rear locker.
700R4 transmission and NP231 transfer case (slip yoke eliminator and 2lo conversion).
Constantly was blowing steering system bushings and rear radius arm bushings. Had bushing fabricated out of delrin for steering system, and modified the radius arms for heims.
Then.......SAS.
Reading this back, I think about the money I spent on modifications when I should have just dived right in to the SAS. I try to tell others who are just starting out with modifications to just take the leap, but few listen.

As far as having to pick the perfect line again, already had to do that on the first trip out to Truckhaven. But, it was a little twisty canyon I would have gotten about 10' into before the Explorer was on its side with the old suspension. One great thing about the SAS I did not know about is how much more stable the Explorer is when leaning over.

 

[Maniak]

Reading this back, I think about the money I spent on modifications when I should have just dived right in to the SAS. I try to tell others who are just starting out with modifications to just take the leap, but few listen.
</snip>

But, think about how much better of a driver you are now.. AND how much you learned over the years by doing the mods slowly. There is no way I could have put in the long-ish travel TTB I have now back in the late 90's when we first got our X.

~Mark

 

[james t]

Your draglink to track bar angles will be fine off only by one degree. Mine is off at least that much and it drives better on the freeway than any other 4x4 Ive owned. (Excluding the bias pit bulls Lol)

 

[BKennedy]

Thanks. I made progress today. Got the new track bar mount plates nearly finished and started on the bump stop spacers just to see if they were going to work out. I think they will be fine.
Then, I got side tracked when the new stereo I bought for the Explorer was delivered. Cheapo, as they all should be in a off-road vehicle. But of course, it has completely different plugs than the aftermarket one that was skipping and not loading CD's I removed. I spent some time discovering I needed to figure out what speaker wire was what, etc., and set it aside. It is kind of cool that a $45 stereo plays MP3's, and has USB, SD Card, and accessory ports.
Also messed around with the triple rate springs I got from Dave's Off Road Supply (Like sticking with venders with great customer service). They are Viper springs like I already have, but unlike the others, these seem to be poorly designed. The are round coil springs, just very thin wire. Most of the triple rate helper springs I have seen are flat so they stack up nice and neat. As soon as I put weight on them, they popped out of place and were overlapping each other. Made a bunch of noise as well.

I emailed Dave, Jr. He responded that if I really don't like them, he will send me a flat spring set for free. I spent more time cycling the suspension and every time they popped and shifted around and it seemed that the ride height would be impossible to maintain with those springs. I don't think they will last very long. I think I need to take him up on his offer.
I purchased my coil over shocks/springs from Dave's, along with some other stuff. He has been very helpful with advice and information as I am a complete coil over retard.

 

[Rick]

Those might work on a buggy, but it sure doesn't sound like it's going to work on your Explorer. I'm glad he will take them in trade for the flat ones.

 

[BKennedy]

He is sending me a flat spring set. He asked me to put the old springs in the box and return them with the return label he put in the box. Great customer service.