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Bkennedy's SAS and Rebuild Thread

Discussion in 'Offroad Projects' started by BKennedy, June 4, 2013.

^^Searches ExplorerForum.com^^





  1. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Thanks, Burns.

    Today, I made 8 gussets for the shock hoops before I was satisfied (messed up the first 4, plus the redo = 8). Did not get time to tack them in before I had to go out.
    I did get the engine cross bar all mocked up. Check out the custom notched cross bar, fella's.....
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    No, I am not going to use that, its for mock-up. Need to go get a matching tube bent tomorrow.
    After that, need to measure for the steering and tear it down for finish welding, then paint, then put it all back together, then put back all the crap I removed to get the hoops to fit, then work on the electrical, then lets not forget I still need to decide on bump stops or air bumps, then.......AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!
     
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  3. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Got the tube bent for $20 (10 a bend). They also said they will charge the shocks for $10 each.

    Sent from my XT907 using Forum Runner
     
  4. DB_1

    DB_1 Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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    Too bad I don't live closer, I'd only charge 35 bucks for all that:p:
     
  5. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I have a question about coil overs and ride height. I understand the springs set the ride height. I was given a recommendation of 16" lowers and 12" upper springs for the ride height set at 5" of up travel. If the springs are not the same as the extended length, then there is the possibility of them coming out of the carrier at full droop. When I set the ride height for the shock hoops, I just measured out 5" of shock shaft length, and masking taped it in place. I woke up this morning with this on my mind, and I guess I won't really know until its all finish welded and installed.

    I ordered a different wheel adaptor set. The one's I am using for mock-up have 12x1.5MM studs and I did not like the idea of two different lugs on the Explorer. Bought a custom set from http://www.motorsport-tech.com
    Lifetime warranty, hub/wheel centric, and only 1" wide.
     
    Last edited: December 20, 2013
  6. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Today and yesterday evening I was working for the Chargers, so not much done. Saturday morning I did get the cross bar and mounts, and some gussets all mocked up. Tomorrow I plan on welding up the lower shock mounts so they don't move, and putting the shocks in with springs to see what I am looking at for ride height.
    Raider Retard...
    [​IMG]
    Cross bar/brace..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The pics make the cross bar look closer to the engine than it sits. There is about an inch of clearance, and over that for the hood. There is not a whole lot of room in there.
    [​IMG]
    I could tell right away how important that cross brace is when I knocked it into place. The entire setup is much more rigid.
     
  7. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Maybe someone can help me understand this message I received from FOA. It seems like every question I ask about their shocks leaves me with another question, based upon their vague answers.
    I asked them what brand/type of shock oil they used so I can buy a small amount to top off the shocks when I add the 90* fittings. I got this:

    "We use an AW22 special spec hydraulic oil. Odds are high you won't be able to find it in small amounts. It won't hurt anything to use a 5wt shock oil in place of it."

    Do you think this means:

    A) Its okay to top off the existing oil with 5wt shock oil

    B) The oil should be completely replaced with 5st shock oil
     
  8. FROADER

    FROADER Moderator Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I would take that as: A

    Since it won't be much at all compared to the amount that will be in the shock, just adding the available 5wt shock oil.
     
  9. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    Getting close and looking great :chug:
     
  10. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Thanks.
    Today, I have a roller! It was sitting on its own weight, for a little while anyway. Adjusted the coil over shocks and set it at ride height (might go up a little)
    Need to do some minor adjustments. I think the track bar might be a little long, but it was only an eyeball estimate.

    Droop-ish
    [​IMG]
    Ride height-ish
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    With enough weight off front suspension to turn shock adjuster
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Does this mean I can have 2" longer tender coils (I have 16" main and 12" tenders)??
    [​IMG]

    Droop seems to be limited by the shocks so I will need limit straps. With the shocks out, the double cardigan joint in my front drive shaft starts to bind a few inches lower than where the shocks would limit travel, and the slip-joint looks good, so I think the shaft will work without modification.

    Questions:

    How much sag should I expect as the coils break-in?
    Shocks are not charged in the pics, will it effect ride height?
     
    Last edited: December 23, 2013
  11. Rick

    Rick Pumpkin Pilot Staff Member Admin Elite Explorer

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    Looks like all your measuring has paid off. The ride height looks perfect:biggthump

    I've never, not had a charge in my shocks, but I don't think it will affect ride height:dunno:

    I have probably sagged 3/4 of an inch since new. I don't remember it sagging very quickly.
     
  12. turboexplorer

    turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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    Charging shocks is worth very little spring rate. Will not be a noticeable difference.

    If you run quality springs like Eibachs then you should see no sag in springs at all. Maybe after years and years of use but none in thousands of miles and many years of use. With my wheeling and 5,000miles of road use and 2 years old I have 0 sag on my springs. I had my coils out the other day and both uppers and lowers are still dead on 14" exactly what they where new.

    Looking good though, congrats on getting it on its own weight that's a big step tha got me excited to finish mine!

    Also, I have 3" or so of shock body above my coil retaining nut as well. If you don't have coil bind at full stuff there isn't a need for a longer upper spring. And to my knowledge they just use upper/lower or primary/secondary coils. A tender coil is a third spring on top of upper coil that is solely designed to keep pressure on the springs at full droop if it is needed. In your case and mine as of now it's not needed. Unless the right height is to high so to lower it you had to back the adjusting nut off to where there wouldn't be spring pressure at full droop.
     
  13. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Thanks.
    Some people call the top spring the tender, some call what you are calling the tender a helper spring, in a triple rate configuration. I like how it sits now, but I might get it about 1/2" taller before I re-adjust the track bar. That would bring the up-travel to around 5.5", which works for me.

    Getting it back on the ground is huge. I was looking at it today thinking......I did that, it's going to work, all my planning has paid off, and it looks awesome!!
     
  14. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Looking at the front drive shaft, I might need to clock the transfer case to bring the front output down. It will reduce the shaft angle and help clear the exhaust cross pipe. Having a NP231 with the AA adaptor will make that a fairly easy job. Will have to re-do (again) the skid plate for the transfer case. Think I will just remove it for now.
     
  15. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Steering Question:

    I am now thinking of going with TRE's instead of Hiem steering. I saw this, and I have a 20% off code from the vender.
    http://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Inverted-T-Tierod-Draglnk-End-Kit/3163/4295/4486

    What I don't like is having to use 1.5, .25 wall tubing. It is very wide and might cause issues. Is it possible to get 1.25, 120 wall DOM and sleeve it with a piece of 1.0, 120 wall DOM, so just the ends with the bungs would be 120 wall? Would that be stronger than the 1.5 while keeping the outer diameter smaller?
     
  16. RockRanger

    RockRanger Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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    Won't be stronger. I am using 1.5 x .250 tube for steering. I am glad I did. The tierod is still straight as the day I put it in. It has been bashed hard. Just make sure it will clear your diff cover.
     
  17. gmanpaint

    gmanpaint It's Always Something! Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    I chose the steering kit from Ruffstuff. It comes with the 1 ton GM TRE, and a special TRE for the Pitman. It's angled to accommodate for the lift. Comes with all the Dom too. Price was right, and they have 20% off sales all the time.
     
  18. turboexplorer

    turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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    I agree. I'm glad I did as well I bumped mine really hard once and no issues. Also nice to know that you'll have no flex in steering components driving at 70mph. And my stuff was from RuffStuff as well on a 20% promotion code I believe.

    Ill post on my build thread next week what I did to eliminate the tie rod roll. This last trip to Southern Utah, the freeway drive down was amazing super tight best it's ever driven. 0 tie rod roll now.
     
  19. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    Thanks
    I keep going back and forth like my wife in the shoe section at Nortstrom.
    Eventually, I will decide.

    Today, I kept messing around with trying to mimic the ride height, both the vehicle and the suspension, with no weight on the front. What a pain. Every adjustment I made to the right side, moved the left, and the rear suspension unloads every time I take the weight off the front. Finally got close, but now my side to side placement of the front axle looks even. When its on the ground and at ride height, the passenger side tires are out about 3/4" from driver side. I guess I just need to hack off 1/2" at a time from the track bar, set it on the ground, hack off, set it on the ground, etc...until its true.

    I did get the placement for the limit straps and bumps. I am just going with some 1.75" diameter by 2" high Synergy poly bumps I already have. The limit straps will use my original axle shock mount location directly inside of the coil overs. Double sheer mounts, of course.

    Due to the fact that I flat tow the Explorer behind my RV, I had limit straps with quick release pins mounted to the rear of the tires on the radius arms/frame to keep the suspension from unloading and riding up on the tow bar. It happened once, and my insurance company paid a lot of money to fix the damage. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326467 They allowed about 3" of down travel movement. I am figuring the issue will be ten-fold what is once was with the new suspension. Also figured out today that if I had not cut off the temporary towing limit strap mounts, I could have used them again. I got those all lined up using the existing shock mounts on the radius arms. I had a nifty plan of using longer bolts on the limit strap mounts to add the temporary limiting straps with quick release pins, but the long bolts might interfere with the coil overs, and would be hard to get to behind the shocks.
     
  20. Stic-o

    Stic-o Elite Movie Star Elite Explorer

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    Same Here:thumbsup:

    Mine taps by BTF cover with full lock, but that's about it.
     
  21. BKennedy

    BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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    So, this morning I get it back on its wheels and at ride height. It still looks like the tire is sticking out more on the passenger side than driver side. I get out the old trusty plum bob, level and tape measure. Yep, sticks out 1/4" more on passenger than driver. So I check the frame and its exactly 9" from the outside of the top of the upper ball joint to the plum line on both sides. Dead centered on the frame. So its the body that is different side to side.
    I am guessing only I would every notice it, but there it is....
    The passenger rear tire is the same, sticks out 1/4" more than the driver side.
    Do I leave it alone and figure the frame is straighter than the body?
     

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